Recently:

The entire online poker community was shocked to learn that cheating in fact occured on AP. I myself had always thought of it as a possibility, but chose to side with ignorance and wait until I saw it for myself. Seemed to be something that couldn't really happen to us, right? Well, unfortunately we recently learned otherwise.

Having said that... an event of this nature was ultimately inevitable. The industry is still young and redefining itself everyday. Laws are still being created and disputed. Best methods have yet to be established and governing/regulating bodies have yet to be formed. The truth is... this isn't that uncommon. Much like pirates once stole from unsuspecting ships, cheaters have now robbed the unsuspecting people of online poker. It's another example of the timeless epic of good v. evil.

Which is exactly why online poker is destined to prevail. It was the work of several intellegent, good hearted people, what some would call modern era 'patriots' of the industry... that took it upon themselves to self regulate our industry. It's amazing that an investigation spearheaded by the players themselves uncovered the biggest online poker scandal to date. This is proof that online poker is in a better place today than it was yesterday. Online poker is here to stay.

What next:

There were earlier posts in the P5's forum calling out the Kahnawake Gaming Commission... requesting that they prove they're capable of governing the sites that play within its regulation. The verdict is still pending on this, but ultimately won't matter. It's up to the people to regulate and form its own governing bodies. Gaming commissions and governments are created by the people for the people. The scandal that was uncovered here on P5's and 2+2 are a great example this is already happening.

Also, several top pros and ambassadors of the game, the Poker Player Alliance, lobbyists, etc. are already in Washington DC working to pave the road of the future... U.S. regulation. Since 75% of players are from the U.S. we need U.S. regulation.

Check out Barry Greensteins audio blog regarding the recent developments in Washington D.C. This is more great news and more proof that online poker is heading in the right direction.

http://www.pokerroad.com/_/the_bear_blog/10-25-07/

Annoying...

All of the players condeming AP and even online poker in its entirety. I may be the only one who thinks this, but I still trust AP and online poker. I feel this was an isolated incident and that there are more good people out there than bad. Everyone feels they are making a statement by proudly boasting they have withdrawn their money from the site and are declaring they will never play there again. Big deal. Try doing something proactive v. reactive. Join the PPA, lobby your senators, and prove that despite the scandal... poker is indeed in a better place today than it was yesterday.

"I feel this was an isolated incident and that there are more good people out there than bad."

lol @ the idea that there are more good people than bad in the gambling industry.

AP needs to burn. UB is so irrelevant, who cares?

Fair sentiments, however you have to realise that with soooo many sites out there (epecially for non US players such as myself) it is very much a buyer's market.

Players withdrawing their cash from AP sends a clear message to the whole industry that players can and will vote with their wallets.

King Rube,

How can you find those who condemn AP/UB annoying?

AP publicly denied any knowledge of a breach in security until their hand was forced. They have yet to publicly apologize for lying to us that they had this knowledge all along (for a minimum of a month before they admitted it).

You would think that in the wake of this incident, security at UB and AP would be HELLATIGHT, right? Wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth.

UB has full knowledge of several bots playing on their site, yet they don't take the most remedial of steps to resolve this problem. They choose to ignore the obvious. In the meantime, for over a month, their site has become a laughingstock while players joke about FULL TEN-HANDED TABLES WITHOUT A SINGLE HUMAN PLAYER AT THEM!

One or more of the following statements is true:

- Nobody is monitoring UB's games.
- The person responsible for monitoring UB's games can't detect a bot that any run-of-the-mill rube could detect within 3 hands.
- They don't care if bots play on the site.

No matter which of those statements is true, it's a horrific lack of respect for the customer base.

So, the best way to describe AP and UB is either "pathetic" or "apathetic". UB and AP don't give a shit what we think. FACT: Their actions PROVE that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Honestly, in terms of security, I don't think they could do worse if they tried.

Anyone who condemns UB and AP at this point is anything BUT annoying. They are the heroes that lead the way for online poker to get to that "better place" you speak of. One with integrity, security, and top-notch customer service.

Online poker was in a better place yesterday. stars and FTP are leading the way for it to be a better tomorrow. UB and AP are just holding it back.

Strongly agree with Jennifear and gank.

To put online poker in a better place,the following needs to happen in my opinion:

1. AP and UB should be shut down

2. An independant regulating company set up which sites must pay to monitor them to be allowed to operate

3. Major sites like party, Paradise, 888 reopened to US.

The situation as it stands now has shut out the biggest most respectable companies and has allowed smaller ones with no operating standards to rip off their customers.

I 100% agree w/jennifear and Z^^^^^! The "security breach" AP had is unexceptable and they should bow out and shut down. The AP/UB organization was busted for CHEATING and then very cowardly tried to avoid any admittance of the crimes that occured. Also no statement was made to the players in the poker community when we practically begged is just PATHETIC and totally disrespectful to say the least. I must remind you that the poker community in a whole is a small one compared to the masses that actually play the game, both live and online. The guys in OUR poker community busted these assholes and WD guys...and this hit the streets and made front pages to the PUBLIC. We all see the AP commercials and know whats up...just don't play there anymore.

I think Rube hit the nail on the head here. People are not always bloodthirsty at the poker tables, there are times when we talk to others at the tables, joke around, have a good time. We also find alot of things in common about ourselves at the tables. But even when we're just out for blood cause some f^^$ing donk called off his stack with a 2 outer and hit against us, we can ALL agree that if we think someone is colluding that it is +EV to expose them and get them the hell out of the game.

It is a very personal resposibility of each individual player to protect their own personal investment in the online poker world. Think about it guys, if cheating just keep spreading in online poker, we're going to all need to get REAL JOBS until we're 21+ and I think I speak for everyone when I say NO ONE wants that.

<SPAN>The message being sent is not to AP/UB, it is to the other poker-sites out there as a cautionary tale – don’t be like AP or you will perhaps get caught and lose your whole nut. Like someone said, it is a buyers’ market today and we can choose to not do business with a company that showed no interest in fixing a glaring problem until way after they were forced/caught to do something.</SPAN>

<SPAN> </SPAN>

<SPAN>If we as players let AP survive to do business again, the message we send is that if you cheat us and get caught, you can rehabilitate yourself and still do business as usual after it all clears up. This could encourage more attempts at ripping us off since there is little potential downside to trying.</SPAN>

<SPAN> </SPAN>

<SPAN>BOYCOTT ABSOLUTE POKER!!! Put them outta business as a message to the poker sites currently doing business that they cannot fuck around with our trust.</SPAN>

Sigh, these are the same near sighted views that are ALWAYS used as the default response to this scandal. 1 person cheats, but we need to convict everyone that is associated with that site... all other employees and all other players.

Sigh, it wasn't just anyone, it was the OWNER/FOUNDER and his monkey. now, of course, they're trying to make it appear like it was just the monkey, working without the organ grinder, but NOBODY could possibly believe that (if they had bothered to take the time to read all the threads/evidence presented on 2+2).

As such the whole enterprise is tainted. It's unfortunate for innocent employees and players who had enjoyed playing there at lower levels (who do not appear to have been cheated), but the fact remains that if you continue to play there you are keeping the guy who cheated in business.

Said employee has since been fired. $ has since been re-paid to affected players. An internal investigation has been launched and the security breach has been identified and fixed.

The guy who cheated is no longer in business...

Online poker will not be a better place to play until the owners and operators come under the jurisdiction of a country which can and will will enforce fair and comprehensive gaming laws and regulations and which has laws to allow the the consumer to pursue grievances through a judicial and/or enforceable arbitration process.

The gaming commission should be funded by taxes or fees placed on the operators of the sites which it licenses. The commission should be administered by people appointed by the government under which it is formed, not by the operators.

In essence, the same as brick and mortor casinos.

Bots on UB?

multi accounting on UB?

customer service issues on UB?

cash out issues on UB?