So I was playing in a home game last night, .25-50 NLHE. It had some fish, and a couple of dealers. A hand came up where I got into an argument with one of the players (who deals poker at a casino).

5 handed, UTG raises to 1.50, cutoff folds, button calls, SB raises to 4.50. I call in the BB. UTG ships for 5.50 total, button folds, SB calls 1, I call 1.

SB checks flop and I bet 14, and he tank calls. I ship the turn for 24, and he tank folds.

Here is where the fun begins. At showdown, UTG has me beat, so I toss my cards to the muck, and rake in the sidepot, while he takes the main. SB tells the dealer to stop, and says he wants to see me hand. My hand hadn't hit the muck yet, so great, my 9h4h is tabled.

I told him immediately that his request to see my hand is pretty much insulting my integrity, and tried to explain my position. He never asked me what I had at all, he just told the dealer to table my hand as it was a showdown, and he wanted to see it.

Granted, I know this is a pet peeve of mine, but I am curious about how people feel about being able to see a mucked hand live. Online, the mucked hands are just a part of the hand history, should it be treated the same for brick and mortar? Does the standard still apply that the rule exists to protect against collusion?

We had a lengthy discussion over the next 30 minutes or so, and I think he understands where I am coming from. I still don't think he agrees with me, but that's cool, too. My question is, what do you think?

pretty douchy

 

Originally Posted by gamble153

This situation is weird but still applies, the only reason the other players should care, and be allowed is if they suspect collusion. This is THE MOST abused rule in poker and a good dealer and floor will control players that abuse it. I am on your side, (except the integrity part, don't really get that, lying is part of the game so who cares about my integrity on the felt) ethical is the issue here.

Bottom line is your right, if douchebag wants to learn your style, then pay the price.

The attack on integrity is in regards to being suspected of collusion. They don't mean to be insulting, just like Randall didn't mean to be racist when he called people porch monkeys in Clerks 2. Asking to see a mucked hand just really irks me. I actually cashed out of the game immediately after the hand occurred. I'll probably go back, as the discussion we had afterward was ultimately positive. And the game is crazy soft.

 

Originally Posted by okse54

when a hand goes to showdown, if ur opponent shows his cards and he has u beat u can simply muck and declare him winner.

idk the details of the rule but based on discussion in this thread it seems that bc of concerns of collusion the table has the right to ask the dealer to show a mucked hand if it went to showdown. in general no one ever does this and its considered pretty douchy to ask someone to show a losing hand

i guess i play too much online and/or not enough live lol

 

Originally Posted by jbravo18

All players dealt in the hand have the right to ask to see my hand at showdown. That is a fact and I do not contest it.

As action happened after the SB folded, UTG showed Js-10c, and the board read 9c-5c-3s-Jc. The river was Ks, and I proceeded to muck, when the SB told the dealer to stop.

My argument concerns the reasons involved when asking to see a mucked hand.The player's reasoning to ask to see my hand was because he could, since it was in the rules. Upon further probing, it was because he wanted information (obv, but until he was able to state this, his argument was "because"). His fold was in part due to the all-in and he would be able to see my hand at showdown. And that he didn't hit the board. I told him that information cost $24. Since UTG had already tabled his hand, I had no need to show my hand, as I won the side pot with no contest. But he wanted the free info since my hand reached showdown.

Why would you need to see a mucked hand?

1) If you suspect cheating

2) ?????

so if he was more elaborate in his reasoning during the hand, does that make it OK?
I understand this is a home game, but IMO this game is all about information, and SB was entitled to that information, its not like he wanted you to give him info that was 'free'. It sounds like you guys have talked this through a bit after the fact and come to some reasoning, which really should smooth out the integrity/ethics issue IMO.

 

Originally Posted by patthecat35

if you bet me out of the pot, in this spot... i might ask to see your hand too.

kinda what im thinking too lol

 

Originally Posted by Kiribato

Bel0wab0ve did it a few years ago at PCA and WPT and asked to see the mucked cards.

So i guess it's alowed, but really bad etiquette

I thought in tourneys you are required to flip your hand over if it's all-in pre-river unless you say the words "I'm drawing dead" (etiquette-wise I won't make my opp. flip over his cards if he says he's drawing dead).

But I thought at a cash table you don't have to show your cards in an all-in situation unless you are flipping the winning hand?

Unsure....seems pretty douchy to make you flip your hand to win the sidepot when you were drawing dead against the all-in pre player.....