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Opinions please,,, to ship or not to ship?

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  1. xxCelticFCxx xxCelticFCxx is offline

    Glasgow
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 694
    Joined: Dec 06

    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:30am)

    Im in the bb, the button who opens has been doing it non stop i kno his range is redic wide im shipping him all day, the sb who flats had been going at it non stop with the opener, he could be flatting because he doesnt wanna get 4 bet because hes 3 bet him so much and wants to take a flop,,,i guess his flats a bit of a worry, all comes down to his flat for the decison i guess,,,the two of them had been really aggro tho,,,also if i ship the pot itss a huge chip up for me

    there is 10 left, 18k for 1st,,, should i nit it right up and value my tournament a lot more and try just make the ft 1st?

    i ask because ive had mixed opinions....... opinions please and reasoning would be much appreciated thanks!
    pokerstars Game #38841814541: Tournament #281110853, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2010/01/28 5:45:12 WET [2010/01/28 0:45:12 ET]
    Table '281110853 83' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: Legacy10 (494100 in chips)
    Seat 2: xxCelticFCxx (160616 in chips)
    Seat 3: mement_mori (145086 in chips)
    Seat 4: tomgus456 (425520 in chips)
    Seat 6: Smitty1581 (189340 in chips)
    Seat 9: NEVAK (242793 in chips)
    Legacy10: posts the ante 700
    xxCelticFCxx: posts the ante 700
    mement_mori: posts the ante 700
    tomgus456: posts the ante 700
    Smitty1581: posts the ante 700
    NEVAK: posts the ante 700
    Legacy10: posts small blind 3500
    xxCelticFCxx: posts big blind 7000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to xxCelticFCxx [3c 3h]
    mement_mori has timed out
    mement_mori: folds
    mement_mori is sitting out
    tomgus456: folds
    Smitty1581: folds
    NEVAK: raises 14000 to 21000
    mement_mori has returned
    Legacy10: calls 17500
    xxCelticFCxx:
    551 
  2. supra1988t supra1988t is offline

    Cary, IL
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:35am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    Im loving a jam here. Your stack is perfect for it IMO.
    649 
  3. OneTime_10 OneTime_10 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:42am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    With all that info I think I am shoving. But, I like folding here most times without these kinds of reads
     
  4. dcoop45 dcoop45 is offline

    Minneapolis, MN
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:58am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    yea wierd stack and spot, jamming polarizes the range too much i think for 33, prob just fold here, i mean flatting is pretty bad with ur stack BUT i def dont think it is any worse then shoving, obv not getting correct odds to set mine but its a ok way to play since ur equity being in the tournment is important still. i think u could really do any of the 3
     
  5. Drewace34 Drewace34 is offline

    New Westminster
    Canada

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:00am) in reply to dcoop45

    post that hand from 100r ftp 6 max vs UTE imo
     
  6. pokerchief29 pokerchief29 is offline

    WI
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:04am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    i prolly swallow a coal and shit a diamond
  7. OneTime_10 OneTime_10 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:05am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    I think flatting here is brutal and reli never even came across my mind. Definitely way worse than shoving.
     
  8. AmSlim22 AmSlim22 is offline

    Port Jefferson, NY
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:11am) in reply to OneTime_10

    i dont think sb ever has a huge hand here, prob more of a hand he wants to take a flop with. i would def want to get it in, and prob would go thru with it. i hate 3x'er tho and they always make me hesitate :-(
     
  9. Gettin Daize Gettin Daize is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:19am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    shooove
    2 211 
  10. Drewch Drewch is offline

    Mississauga
    Canada

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:23am) in reply to Gettin Daize

     
    Originally Posted by Gettin Daize View Post

    shooove

     
  11. ApesAreFun ApesAreFun is online now Moderator/Euro Donk

    Norway

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 1:30am) in reply to Drewch

    Shoving>Folding>Flatting
     906 
  12. The Spewtard The Spewtard is offline

    Australia

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 4:26am) in reply to ApesAreFun

    I like a shove here also
    770 2
  13. FGEasiest FGEasiest is offline

    Neu-Ulm
    Germany

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 4:30am) in reply to The Spewtard

    I also like a shove..
    On a side note:
    You should have an edge over the rest of the field, so i don´t mind a fold and rape them in other spots...
    But im a nit...
     
  14. rayfox111 rayfox111 is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 4:54am) in reply to ApesAreFun

    Flattings bad. Its a fold or a shove.
    The flat looks suspitiously like, he's woke up with something at least decent.
    Maybe trying to induce a shove from you?

    On balance I think its a fold.
    If you push with 33, and get called, your flipping at best.
  15. m_hawk_1 m_hawk_1 is offline

    Australia

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 8:26am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    With the button/sb dynamic you described, I like a shove.
    471 
  16. firaldo firaldo is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 8:45am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    aweeen

    and lol when its revealed that the sb 'trapped' u with 55
    394 
  17. Langevo45 Langevo45 is offline

    Banff
    Canada

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 8:49am) in reply to Gettin Daize

     
    Originally Posted by Gettin Daize View Post

    shooove

    I'm down with supporting that sort of comment
  18. JokersOnYou JokersOnYou is offline

    Beverly, MA
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 8:51am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    Yah I shove this. Given the stack sizes and the read you have on your opponents, seems like a pretty good opportunity to increase your stack by 30% with no flop.
     
  19. ficha19 ficha19 is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 9:12am) in reply to JokersOnYou

    with 18k on the line i like folding here and waiting for a better spot, knowing i have the skill to outplay them donw the line
  20. saukendar saukendar is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 9:20am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    The SB calls a big % and he has a better pair than you - fold.

    my 2 cents
  21. Whatshoulditbe Whatshoulditbe is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 9:50am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    well obv the situation is strictly read dependent. given the images of the opponents in the pot, shipping is a viable option. I still think folding is an option and i'd really have to be playing at the table to know exactly what to do in this spot but going all in can't be bad. oh and the ,,, in OP are tilting! use periods bro...
     
  22. stlpokerstar stlpokerstar is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 9:55am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    I like a fold. You have enough chips to not have to shove. Im sure you could outplay the field for a nice score. wait for a better spot. imo
  23. EyeKnows EyeKnows is online now

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 10:25am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    Depends on my read on the SB and how often I am getting a fold from him but this is probably a shove for me.

    And lol at turning down a +EV situation because I think I can "outplay the field" with all my mad-ass skillz yo. I am never turning down a +EV situation, I guess I just ain't good enough to do that like a lotta ya'll. Not saying this is for sure +EV but if I ever think something is I will never refuse it because I think I am so much better than the field remaining, especially at the end of a mtt when that field is stronger than at the beginning, I don't even think that early in mtts so lolz at thinking that at the end.
  24. xxCelticFCxx xxCelticFCxx is offline

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 10:30am) in reply to Whatshoulditbe

     
    Originally Posted by Whatshoulditbe View Post

    well obv the situation is strictly read dependent. given the images of the opponents in the pot, shipping is a viable option. I still think folding is an option and i'd really have to be playing at the table to know exactly what to do in this spot but going all in can't be bad. oh and the ,,, in OP are tilting! use periods bro...

    dude my grammar is like non existant wasnt really a fan of school, if u can understand wht im saying its all good, if u wanna teach me some classes to improve my typing etc, ill pay u a small fee for ur service's!
    551 
    Thread Starter
  25. Illini213 Illini213 is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 10:41am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    Definitely gotta shove here with hand dynamics and the fact that guy is raising on the button and caller is in the SB
    12 1
  26. xxCelticFCxx xxCelticFCxx is offline

    Glasgow
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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 10:47am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    oh and the hand the sb had aq, flip goot ever please? nope gg

    at the time i was getting it in with out rly thinking it over to much, looked like so much dead money in the pot i think i pick it up there often enuff but yeah it is a bit of a gamble and the timing of it been 10 left, i guess ill become more of a nit on bubbles

    i suppose this is why i bubble so many tourneys :(
    551 
    Thread Starter
  27. Getumboy Getumboy is offline

    Columbia, SC
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 11:48am) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

     
    Originally Posted by xxCelticFCxx View Post


    oh and the hand the sb had aq, flip goot ever please? nope gg

    at the time i was getting it in with out rly thinking it over to much, looked like so much dead money in the pot i think i pick it up there often enuff but yeah it is a bit of a gamble and the timing of it been 10 left, i guess ill become more of a nit on bubbles

    i suppose this is why i bubble so many tourneys :(

    lol'd...be for realz!
  28. count_chocula count_chocula is offline

    Decatur, IL
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:00pm) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    If the sb has been playing back at him nonstop and then all of a sudden he flats, sirens are going off in my head. I fold here and wait for a better situation.
     
  29. fratboy247 fratboy247 is offline

    Elizabeth, NJ
    United States

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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:06pm) in reply to xxCelticFCxx

    it mite not be the ''Best''option here, but flatting is not as ''bad'' as every1 is makin it out to be
     
  30. Polar_Bears Polar_Bears is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Jan 28th, 2010 (1/28/2010 12:09pm) in reply to count_chocula

    I look at it from two perspectives....if the other two players have seriously been playing this way, I am jamming without a doubt here. In fact, it's a non issue for me.

    However....I don't see anything necessarily wrong with flattening for set mining here. I am putting in 14k which I am getting 3.5-1 on my call, plus you are getting well over 11-1 (general number I use which fluctuates depending on position of raiser) on implied odds here with both stacks. It would be a very rare spot that I might do this at this stage, but I don't see fault with this play here either especially if I am up against two aggros who are gonna pay me off on any top pair.
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