pokerstars Game #19031331804: Tournament #96579227, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2008/07/23 - 00:31:50 (ET)
Table '96579227 3' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Pointer (174052 in chips)
Seat 2: mendieta19 (72084 in chips)
Seat 3: PlzBelieveMe (74128 in chips)
Seat 4: jeffbeesdat (49000 in chips)
Seat 5: thedonator (101192 in chips)
Seat 6: URmyRailbird (58424 in chips)
Seat 7: usourcek (122929 in chips)
Seat 8: akat11 (127164 in chips)
Seat 9: BMH v.2.37 (55241 in chips)
Pointer: posts the ante 400
mendieta19: posts the ante 400
PlzBelieveMe: posts the ante 400
jeffbeesdat: posts the ante 400
thedonator: posts the ante 400
URmyRailbird: posts the ante 400
usourcek: posts the ante 400
akat11: posts the ante 400
BMH v.2.37: posts the ante 400
Pointer: posts small blind 2000
mendieta19: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
PlzBelieveMe: calls 4000
jeffbeesdat: folds
thedonator: calls 4000
URmyRailbird: folds
usourcek: folds
akat11: raises 13280 to 17280
BMH v.2.37: folds
Pointer: folds
mendieta19: folds
PlzBelieveMe: folds
thedonator: raises 83512 to 100792 and is all-in
akat11: calls 83512
*** FLOP *** [3h Ac 9h]
*** TURN *** [3h Ac 9h] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [3h Ac 9h 6d] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thedonator: shows [Ks Ad] (a pair of Aces)
akat11: shows [Ah Qc] (a pair of Aces - lower kicker)
thedonator collected 215184 from pot
usourcek said, "gishhh"

thoughts?

theres a few juicy stacks at the table (akat, BMH, even mendieta) that are gonna love to shove here after a couple limps. i would hope that's what donator had in mind when he limped here...

he probably limped hoping that one of the stacks would shove a marginal hand behind him and if not and a brick flop came out he coudl get away from the hand cheapily

lol i was wondering

my thinking was that he is slightly concerened about the utg limp and he hopes one of us behind him raise or shove and he can see what utg does and maybe fold if there is an lp raise and utg flat or shove. the way he got it in was a thing of beauty tho.

ya that makes sense if his utg limping range is polarized to huge pairs and speculative hands that he folds

 

Originally Posted by Akat11

Kill me. Ak didnt make much sense to me at the time :(

i play it the exact same way you did. ul.

Yep. He limped with AK.

 

Originally Posted by slizza420

Interesting. This play seems sorta standard to me but obviously I know nothing about the donators playing style and his ranges, etc. He limped utg with ak and then repopped allin after Akat raised. Akat called him with aq because he said that ak didn't make much sense at the time. From that remark I am assuming there is obviously a history between you all and you are all pretty familiar with each other's playing styles since you guys are all regulars in that tourny. I am curious to know though why Akat says ak didn't make much sense at the time. If he limped utg and then repopped allin what did you put him on? I am assuming a small or middle pocket pair or maybe even garbage (the donator may frequently squeeze from these type of positions I know nothing about him). I am just wondering why this was considered a tricky line (it seems pretty standard to me). Is the thinking here that he woulda tried to get more value out of a big hand in that situation by flatting or reraising a smaller amount? I am assuming that the Donator is hyper aggressive and that it was hard to give him credit for a big hand in that situation and he was in turn countering that by using some metagame strategy. Am I way off base with my thinking here?

Reread HH. He didn't limp UTG, hence title of thread including the word "overlimp". FWIW, I think Chucksty's spot on regarding the hand analysis. Also, I've been thinking about this for a while, but I think the strong overlimp is an underutilized play for the most part. I would not be at all surprised to see this gaining popularity in the near future. If it already has, or did a while ago and has already been played out and I'm delivering completely old news, then disregard the above statement

So what do you guys do if donator raises from that spot and you are Akat?

-Cre8ive

 

Originally Posted by Cre8ive

So what do you guys do if donator raises from that spot and you are Akat?

-Cre8ive

Same thing happens... all the chips get in pre-flop, but then this hand wouldn't have been posted for stuarts obv bad limp :-p

 

Originally Posted by Akat11

Kill me. Ak didnt make much sense to me at the time :(

I think that's the interesting thing about Donator's play here. I play regularly with a guy here in Costa Rica who I consider to be a very good player (and certainly one of the most profitable if not the most profitable cash player in the country), and one thing he's always commenting on is the situation that occurs when he makes a big raise after several people limp or after one guy raises and one or more people call. Basically his thought is that after the initial limper or raiser folds, he thinks the guys behind him almost certainly don't have real strong hands.

I think his outlook is true in the majority of cases, and it's definitely why Donator's play here is very tricky. It's pretty much impossible to put him on any hand that dominates AQ here, so I think AQ pretty much has to be a call in Akat's spot. Not only does Donator get called by weaker hands in this spot; he also might see cheap flops in the future with speculative hands because people are afraid that he could be doing what he's doing with a big hand... He's creating a situation where people can't be comfortable in the pot against him without a monster because they never know what he's doing in what situation.

More or less, he's keeping people guessing constantly with a play like this, and I like it, at least on occasion

hes getting better than 1.5-1 on his money against a range that appears to be heavily weighted by mid pocket pairs...this is where thedonator gets value out of his limp, he disguised his hand very well

 

Originally Posted by uh ooh

never folding AQ in that spot Lawg1

Why not? Would you not agree with me that (all other things being equal, i.e. we don't know donator's style or usual range) it is very likely that akat is putting his money in either behind or in a 50-50ish race?

Why do that when you've still got some room to wait for a better spot?

Lawq1 I agree with you. My read on the situation is that UTG limp if hes a bad player has AA or KK here so AKo limp in early/middle is ok defenseive play. UTG can have a small pair or big Ace as well. If an A flops its rarely ever good with multi limpers. The Std raise by AQ is a little lite but not a bad bet, I like a call better here, where if a Q flops its probably good. Then UTG drops now you know he had AQ, AJ or small pair. The donator has an all in or fold decision (which is not a decision really) and goes all in. I pretty much hate that call after.