Hey guys, haven't done a p5's training discussion thread in a while, and with a lot of P5'ers at the WSOP right now I thought doing one relating to live tourneys would be a good idea.

I played this hand in a 1500 WSOP event the other day and it spurred some discussion among my friends, so thought it would be a good one to debate.

This is a WSOP 1500. It's a mediocre table for an event like this...3 or 4 younger players that seem to know what they're doing and are good, and 3 or 4 players that don't really seem good at all and 1 or 2 that just are there and haven't really left an impression on me yet (meaning they're prolly just too tight and prolly not good). overall, it's far from a tough table, but there are a ton of way easier tables in the room...anyway...it's 75/150 and i've chipped up from the 4500 starting stack to about 8500 or so just by running ok and making a few pairs and getting value from some weaker players. one young and active player with about 9k chips opens to 350 from the hijack...the cutoff folds and another young kid on the button makes it 800 with about 4800 total. this player has been extremely active, opening really a lot, especially from late position, and 3betting at least 3 or 4 times in the 90 minutes he's been at the table. after he makes it 800, the sb folds and i'm fairly sure that he is light and making a move here at least some % of the time. i'm in the big blind with 8500 or so and look down at 55. what do i do?

now, i think is an interesting spot for several reasons. for starters, how do i proceed: even if i'm positive the button is light a lot, and the opener is obviously opening fairly wide...what do I do. it's too many chips to just shove because when the opener DOES have a hand we're basically dead and it's just so many chips to put in and risk to win not that many. ok, so then can we 4bet/fold to the opener and call the button? clearly i'm not trying to induce or get it in vs the button, but if we put in any sort of reasonably sized 4bet, then wer'e going to be getting the odds to call it off vs the buttons range since he's going to have AQ and AK so often.

More importantly though, the question that I ask tho is...do we want to even take this spot, and how do we come to this decision. the overall field is fairly soft, and this is going to be a fairly large pot to play at 75/150 if we get called, where we have at best 53% equity...however, our table is not amazing or anything like that, and there area definitely a few players making things difficult for us. How does our decision change because we have 55 vs having a hand like ATo or QJs? Would your decision change if the opener only had 5k and we could more easily just shove? What about if this was same effective stacks but at 100/200 with an ante? 300/600 with an ante? Does it matter if our table is going to break soon and we could get moved to a way easier table? what if we're not going to break at all this day?

I have some thoughts on the situation and I clearly made a decision in the moment, and will post my thoughts after some people way in. Thanks!

if it were me id rather do this with a hand of no value at all like 510 or something with blockers

if the players are really as laggy as described surely it will be easier to extract value in a much less high variance spot

given stack sizes even if their were antes id still fold as i do not want to call off half my stack with 55 here

if button had similar stack size to us i can imagine taking this spot more as we arn't commited when he shoves and can imagine him 5betting light a lot which we can jam over

gl in rest of the wsop

depends what you want to rep in your hand, i see no problem with calling (but would prefer raising to isolate the btn) and outplaying post flop, if you think the btn is loose and could have a wide range then you could have some fun - all turns to custard tho if the original raiser shoves

this is what you play the game for right? doesn't matter what's in your hand aye!

i like a fold. you can flat too i guess theres a ton of implied value when you hit a set. plus you may get a extra bet if the agro misses. that being said i prefer fold.

omg yeh thats what we should do call the 3bet pre hit a set then stack them.......if we miss we can just fold...hmmmmmmmmmmmm :--------------------------------------------)

its pretty obv to anyone who knows anything about poker that we cant profitably flat the 3bet oop with these stack sizes...it just comical to even think about flatting..it is beyond absurd.

what do you want me to post?

i am very sarcastic and love to joke with people...i didnt mean to offend anyone i apologize if i offended you or anyone for that matter.

if you read my post it is very sarcastic and you can tell i am laughing. You should be able to understand what i am saying by its so bad to flat..sorry if it comes across as being a dick but i just wanted the poster to be like 'haha of yeah i see why we shouldnt be doing that etc'

sorry for being a dick..guess il post less

 

Originally Posted by peanut172

its pretty obv to anyone who knows anything about poker that we cant profitably flat the 3bet oop with these stack sizes...it just comical to even think about flatting..it is beyond absurd.

what do you want me to post?

i am very sarcastic and love to joke with people...i didnt mean to offend anyone i apologize if i offended you or anyone for that matter.

if you read my post it is very sarcastic and you can tell i am laughing. You should be able to understand what i am saying by its so bad to flat..sorry if it comes across as being a dick but i just wanted the poster to be like 'haha of yeah i see why we shouldnt be doing that etc'

sorry for being a dick..guess il post less

post what you like when you like, that's why they call it a forum - a gathering of ideas

And if you think doing the same as everybody else gives you an edge then good on you, i'll stick to my thought's and since it is Gags who posted I don't think it means a whole lot what 2 cards he is holding it is how he plays them that counts