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people who vpip over 40%

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  1. frostymember frostymember is offline

    Evansville, IN
    United States

    Posts: 157
    Joined: Jul 07

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 9:25pm)

    when someone is playing in almost half the pots how the heck do you judge when they have a good hand? i just lost jj>qq to a guy who was raising everytime he was in position and had shown down j-6 the last time he was there-- how can you ever tell strength when they play every pot?
  2. frostymember frostymember is offline

    Evansville, IN
    United States

    Posts: 157
    Joined: Jul 07

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 9:31pm) in reply to frostymember

    pokerstars GAME #12233276087: TOURNAMENT #62069961, $20+$2 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (150/300) - 2007/09/23 - 21:18:38 (ET)
    Table '62069961 2' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: FBR12K (4785 in chips)
    Seat 3: frostymember (7580 in chips)
    Seat 4: Scotty (1540 in chips)
    Seat 5: pippz (5070 in chips)
    Seat 6: John85Z28 (1850 in chips)
    Seat 7: tilterino (11352 in chips)
    Seat 8: trbb1 (19576 in chips)
    Seat 9: vikesfan20 (15650 in chips)
    FBR12K: posts the ante 25
    frostymember: posts the ante 25
    Scotty: posts the ante 25
    pippz: posts the ante 25
    John85Z28: posts the ante 25
    tilterino: posts the ante 25
    trbb1: posts the ante 25
    vikesfan20: posts the ante 25
    FBR12K: posts small blind 150
    frostymember: posts big blind 300
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to frostymember [Jc Jh]
    Scotty: raises 1215 to 1515 and is all-in
    pippz: folds
    John85Z28: folds
    tilterino: folds
    trbb1: folds
    vikesfan20: raises 1485 to 3000
    FBR12K: folds
    frostymember: raises 4555 to 7555 and is all-in
    vikesfan20: calls 4555
    *** FLOP *** [2c Ac Kc]
    *** TURN *** [2c Ac Kc] [Ah]
    *** RIVER *** [2c Ac Kc Ah] [2d]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    frostymember: shows [Jc Jh] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
    vikesfan20: shows [Qc Qd] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
    vikesfan20 collected 12080 from side pot
    Scotty: shows [Ks 8h] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
    Scotty collected 4895 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 16975 Main pot 4895. Side pot 12080. | Rake 0
    Board [2c Ac Kc Ah 2d]
    Seat 1: FBR12K (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: frostymember (big blind) showed [Jc Jh] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
    Seat 4: Scotty showed [Ks 8h] and won (4895) with two pair, Aces and Kings
    Seat 5: pippz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: John85Z28 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: tilterino folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: trbb1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: vikesfan20 (button) showed [Qc Qd] and won (12080) with two pair, Aces and Queens
    Thread Starter
  3. Waldo38 Waldo38 is offline

    Melbourne
    Australia

    Posts: 2,374
    Joined: Jul 07

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 9:36pm) in reply to frostymember

    well for one, the first guy is all in so vikefan knows that his hand will be shown, so you have to think that he is going to be fairly strong here.
  4. Waldo38 Waldo38 is offline

    Melbourne
    Australia

    Posts: 2,374
    Joined: Jul 07

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 9:38pm) in reply to Waldo38

    and his small reraise also makes him look strong becasue hes not scaring people off and isolating the all in player, looks like he wants some action here.
  5. TonyBlaze TonyBlaze is offline

    Posts: 808
    Joined: Apr 06

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 9:39pm) in reply to frostymember

    That is merely one of the benefits of playing alot of hands and rasing in pos etc. Obviously playing junk and spewing chips is the problem with it otherwise.
     
  6. b.stern b.stern is offline

    Posts: 697
    Joined: Dec 05

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 9:50pm) in reply to TonyBlaze

    To answer the OP, first you also take into account prf and number of hands you have (to know how accurate your numbers are). If the guy had is 40/5 (40% vpip, 5% pfr) then he is likely only raising big hands, and calling all others. If he's 40/30 then obviously things change a lot.

    Also, when you play these guys you don't play against specific hands, but play against ranges (if that makes sence).

    You also need to be process orientated, not result orientated.
  7. frostymember frostymember is offline

    Evansville, IN
    United States

    Posts: 157
    Joined: Jul 07

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 10:04pm) in reply to b.stern

    well my sample would be way to small to get a real number but just playing with him and watching him for any amount of time you can tell whats going on to a point- he was in about every other hand and raised almost half of them-- so thats really what i was feeling and playing off of---

    as far as pt goes he was in 55% of hands and raised 40% but like i said my sample is to small to really use that
    Thread Starter
  8. b.stern b.stern is offline

    Posts: 697
    Joined: Dec 05

    Sep 23rd, 2007 (9/23/2007 10:31pm) in reply to frostymember

    I find that usually you don't need a big sample to get a reasonable idea of someones vpip/pfr, and as poker is a game of incomplete information, even a small sample size is useful information for assessing someones pre flop numbers. If he is a true 55/40 you played the hand fine, the fact that you got all in pre flop with JJ as a big underdog here does not mean you misplayed the hand, most of the time you are likely well ahead, even bad players sometimes have real hands too.
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