Game No : 245123338
Cassava Hand History for Game 245123338
$1,000/$2,000 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 17 11 2011 18:49:58
Tournament #34257475 $3.15 + $0.35 - Table #10 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button

Total number of players : 8

Seat 1: JoanOfArc10 ( $41,492)
Seat 2: Brule114 ( $29,098 )
Seat 3: MeerkatPT ( $121,540)
Seat 4: kyemassey ( $26,163 )
Seat 6: luckyshark99 ( $101,223
Seat 7: WiredFox ( $77,831 )]
Seat 9: thedaddy13 ( $62,024 )
[Seat 10: ROplAAyerrr ( $20,438
MeerkatPT posts ante [$200]
JoanOfArc10 posts ante [$200]
Brule114 posts ante [$200
kyemassey posts ante [$200]
luckyshark99 posts ante [$200]
WiredFox posts ante [$200]
thedaddy13 posts ante [$200]
ROplAAyerrr posts ante [$200]
luckyshark99 posts small blind [$1,000]
WiredFox posts big blind [$2,000]

**Dealing down cards **

Dealt to WiredFox [ Kc, 3d ]

thedaddy13 folds
ROplAAyerrr folds
JoanOfArc10 folds
Brule114 folds
MeerkatPT raises [$4,300]

This is from the CO and the player has been aggressive.

kyemassey folds
luckyshark99 folds
WiredFox calls [$2,300]

This is only $2,300 more into a pot of $8,900 with a stack of almost 40 BB

**Dealing flop ** [ 7c, 8d, 3s ]

WiredFox checks

MeerkatPT bets [$5,600]

Villain has been C betting a lot and this bet is for half the pot, so the Hero decides to float.
It’s a call of about 1/15th of Hero’s stack.

WiredFox calls [$5,600]

**Dealing turn ** [ 2d ]

WiredFox checks

MeerkatPT checks

**Dealing river ** [ Qh ]

WiredFox checks

MeerkatPT bets [$11,200]

Pot on the river stands at $22,400, the Villain has just bet half the pot again taking the pot size to $33,600

WiredFox ???????

Explain how you'd play the hand differently if so and most importantly what should the Hero do here and why?

i agree, i would either be folding here pre or 3betting as a bluff , i dont really want to flat with hands like this that dont play well oop

the reason that it is either a clear fold or 3bet pre is because you are going to constantly get yourself in spots like this, where there is no real answer except go with your gut.

i think flatting oop is like one of the worst mistakes people constantly make because playing oop is just so uneccessary (sp?), and even it you do allow it, K3off should just never ever be flatted here.

I think the reason people arent giving you responses is because the only real response has already been given

even if to call a 4-1 pot to a constant raisor costs just 1/38th of your stack?

Given the apparent error, which I actually am aware of and don't usually do..... what is your play after the flop (given the notes on the player)?

Btw, you also go no further than the flop and the first part of the question....clearly a fold pre is best but the most interesting parts of the hand after that.

Regardless of the poor call to get to that position, I mean you could be there to a constant 'in position' bettor on a checked flop.

Clearly the key to the question is all about after the flop if any of you bothered to read it. Regardless of how you got there. I don't think there is anyone on this forum who doesn't understand that calling regularly OOP with K3o is poor play, but on this occasion when I did, it was to a constant raisor and was a little fed up - no excuse but nonetheless, what do you do after the flop?

Fold pre, and it's not even remotely close, even given the apparant great odds you speak of. You're oop post flop and against most opponents on most flops you're going to check fold (and thus have committed more chips to pots you're very rarely going to win). Even bad players will own you with this bad of a hand when you're out of position.

 

Originally Posted by JMangs

Fold pre.. or 3 bet pre, dunno what his fold to 3bet% or what your 3bet percentage out of the bb is but either way those are you two options... never just calling there and playing k3 off out of position.

thats exactly what i thought

come on man this is the easiest preflop fold... u got frustrated of villains button raises, ur play is one of the reasons why they're so profitable. floating OOP with air is also not a good move. im a pretty good 6max player, u wont believe what plays i made in some 6max tourneys or sngs that i won, but such a play cant be profitable nomather how good u are imo. on the river, u have a pair of 3s..... honestly, don't try to make these hero plays u see on tv

 

Originally Posted by daughton

ok,fair enough. I just think I played stupidly pre and calling the flop.

However after that when he checks behind me on the turn given the board I think it's obvious he has nothing, whilst I have bottom pair.

Given this his half pot bet on the river could be he has a queen or nothing. As it happened it was nothing and my 3 took the pot.

I know it's a fold pre flop and even on the flop I get there and I know I shouldn't be there with K3. I just think it's a different hand when he checks the turn given the type of player he is.

when he checks back turn after u call flop that doesnt auto mean he has nothing, he could be checking back a hand with showdown value to control the pot and see what u do on the river, his plan could be to call most of your river bets turning his hand into a bluff catcher if he does have some type of value hand, when u check river again his plan could of been to bet his hand for value thinking he is still good

 

Originally Posted by daughton

However after that when he checks behind me on the turn given the board I think it's obvious he has nothing, whilst I have bottom pair.

This isn't always the case, I see villains check the turn plenty to make the opponent think exactly what you thought here. I do it myself. Gives you some false security so that with the right river card you get taken to value town thinking I'm bluffing.

Honestly, you defended your blind with a hand that plays terrible post flop then you float the flop with no real plan of what you'll do on upcoming streets. I see this all the time and players just throw away chips over defending their blinds, floating flops and folding on the turn or river. Position is so important and even playing strong hands OOP is hard enough but playing weak hands OOP is even worse. Fold that trash pre-flop. I don't think I'd even choose this hand to 3 bet with honestly there will be better spots for you to play back at him.