So it's something I've always been curious about. I see players with stats like these all the time. They play high volume (therefore have plenty in sample size) yet their ROI is, frankly, laughable.

There is a particular player who's stats fascinate me and sum up what I'm talking about. I won't name the player but I will show the stats.



Over 12,000 games. 1.7 mill in scores with just 134k in profit. 9% ROI

This is kind of an extreme example but perfectly demonstrates what I'm saying.

So how are you able to be good enough to beat the game over such a long period of time yet barely have any profit to show for it? Do you just have some fundamental leaks you've never looked at?

It's always been my understanding (and personal experience) that winning players adjust their game and get better with time. Are there some winning players who play JUST well enough to marginally beat the game in the long run, never making any improvements or adjustments?

So what kind of ROI is not "laughable" when your ABI is $126? Not like the dude is playing micros. I dunno, $134k+ likely massive rakeback seems ok to me. Dude may not be the best player in the world, but hardly laughable.

 

Originally Posted by winkie23

So what kind of ROI is not "laughable" when your ABI is $126? Not like the dude is playing micros. I dunno, $134k+ likely massive rakeback seems ok to me. Dude may not be the best player in the world, but hardly laughable.

Yea, I agree.. I was going to type up a response but Its Sunday and I don't want to think.

I think some people have different goals in poker.. some people want to grind out a decent living, others want to improve and become the best.

I don't get it, what the fuck am I laughing at?

LOL you say things like "plenty in sample size" and "such a long period of time" and "long run" when this player would need 1,000x the sample he currently has and he still won't have seen the "long run".

ITS TOURNAMENT POKER PEOPLE.

 

Originally Posted by Dirrrrrty

personally, i think these types of players are simply playing too many tables.

This is definitely an argument I would make.

 

Originally Posted by SCTrojans

LOL you say things like "plenty in sample size" and "such a long period of time" and "long run" when this player would need 1,000x the sample he currently has and he still won't have seen the "long run".

ITS TOURNAMENT POKER PEOPLE.

Sample size is obviously everything in determining ROI or any kind of statistic, but holy shit man if 11 million games doesn't give you an idea where you're at then i donno. Game of variables for sure, but I think 11k is plenty enough games to show some kind of trend and expected ROI.

 

Originally Posted by adamsapple19

So it's something I've always been curious about. I see players with stats like these all the time. They play high volume (therefore have plenty in sample size) yet their ROI is, frankly, laughable.

There is a particular player who's stats fascinate me and sum up what I'm talking about. I won't name the player but I will show the stats.



Over 12,000 games. 1.7 mill in scores with just 134k in profit. 9% ROI

This is kind of an extreme example but perfectly demonstrates what I'm saying.

So how are you able to be good enough to beat the game over such a long period of time yet barely have any profit to show for it? Do you just have some fundamental leaks you've never looked at?

It's always been my understanding (and personal experience) that winning players adjust their game and get better with time. Are there some winning players who play JUST well enough to marginally beat the game in the long run, never making any improvements or adjustments?

This doesn't include rebuys either.

 

Originally Posted by Jennifear

9% ROI is a nice ROI at $126 ABI. Absolutely nothing wrong with making $11/MTT! .

+ add any rakeback loyalty bonuses etc

Also im sure plenty players have that kind of volume but it doesnt mean theyve played x# tourneys every day all day for 5 years and never look at their game.....

They could have started out as a losing player and gradually improved and may have an average roi of like 20% over the latter portion of their games but with their loses at the start this flattens to 9-10%.

Or they could be slamming a bunch of 45/90/180 mans / turbos & or sattys in which could easily put your volume up to 12k games pretty quickly.

In either case id hardly call 9% roi with a $126 abi laughable.

I also dont think 12k games volume means everything in terms of judging someones poker career , i mean say he holds steady on the same pace over his next 4k games then runs like god just 1 day and ships the SM or something his stats all of a sudden are going to look pretty sick.

What's the timeframe of this sample. >$100K profit is about $100K more than most players have/have made.

The premise of this convo is silly, BTW, but will get many replies nonetheless.

9% looks pretty good over that many games and he's probably missed the big payday more than a few times on a flip at the end that could of dramatically changed his roi. Not like 12,000 games is a lifetime either.

Really? Noone else noticed that all of his profit is from HEADS UP? these stats are from a heads up grinder,

This player is a losing player in every other type of game except heads up, not bad numbers for a hu grinder thi

Sick...apparently my expectations from poker are way too high if 9% is doing really well. Like apology said, with it being 2010, ppl have been playing at LEAST 3-4 years...That's 3k mtts a year....not all that big. $11/game doesn't feel crushing to me either, and I make that..if anything, I feel like I'm far from crushing. The guy plays way too many tables with higher stakes buy ins involved (basically just plays everything on schedule)...he'd prolly do a lot better just playing higher stakes stuff only, or grinding a bunch of midstakes, not both.

Yeah this guy sucks, he only has more profit than 99% of people reading this thread. I'd rather flip burgers at McDonald's, save money, and hire OP to get better at poker before continuing wasting my life making $11 a game.

Sometimes I wonder what people thinks about this game. Do you think is easy to ship a major? Don't you understand that even the best player in the world can keep losing a big hand with 2 tables left, over and over again, that every time he plays that hand he is prong to lose it ad eternum? And that there is nothing he could do about it?

I keep reading threads about "this pro did this", "this other pro is backed", "how much this guy makes", "why would a good player do this or that?", etc, and I think if people spent all that time trying to get better at this game, instead of speculating about stuff they have no idea about, they'd probably know by experience the response to all of these questions, including why the subject of study in this thread "only" has 100K+ in profits.

PS: And sick sample size: 600 non HU games, wow, this guy SUCKS!!! Only 9% ROI at HU games over $100 ABI. I'd kill myself if I sucked that much.

 

Originally Posted by ryukenrock

was wondering how amazing your roi was OP, considering that you laugh at people with 150k in profit on a single site with a $129 abi. Thought id call out your laughable stars stats while im here.

$109k in prizes 3k profit 3% roi $29 ABI

LOL

Considering the OP didnt mention who the player was in listing the player's stats, I would say grow up! Funny, you dont have any names listed in your profile.

oh ok I must have misread, he didnt call this guys roi "frankly laughable"

oh wait yes he did, and oh wait he has 1/3rd the guys roi at under 1/4 the ABI.

LOL at OP LOL at badhwak, ive always wanted to flame you for putting a picture of you next to your car in your profile.now I have the chance. I mean what kind of massive nerd does that? yo check out my car all you online poker players CHECK IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!