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Playing against a maniac

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  1. ECJENSEN56 ECJENSEN56 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 84
    Joined: Feb 07

    Dec 27th, 2007 (12/27/2007 12:22pm)

    Villian has shoved PF last 4 hands so assuming he's tilting and shoving any 2 can we profitably call here?

    pokerstars Game #14132510982: Tournament #71192042, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/12/27 - 12:54:43 (ET)
    Table '71192042 47' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: Respek66 (2730 in chips)
    Seat 2: Bennard (1745 in chips)
    Seat 3: catch95 (5225 in chips)
    Seat 4: maxloving (4466 in chips)
    Seat 5: ECJENSEN56 (5540 in chips)
    Seat 6: cleto123 (1970 in chips)
    Seat 7: matsew (2370 in chips)
    Seat 8: kalle_boy (15365 in chips)
    Seat 9: cdromdvd (9055 in chips)
    maxloving: posts small blind 50
    ECJENSEN56: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to ECJENSEN56 [4c 4s]
    cleto123: raises 1870 to 1970 and is all-in
    matsew: folds
    kalle_boy: folds
    cdromdvd: folds
    Respek66: folds
    Bennard: folds
    catch95: folds
    maxloving: folds
    ECJENSEN56: ?
     
  2. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Dec 27th, 2007 (12/27/2007 2:52pm) in reply to ECJENSEN56

    Tough spot here. Honestly, I'd really rather call with something like a K-2off here than this hand. Even if you are postiive that it's ATC, most of the time, you are racing here. You are likely up against 2 overs and it's a race. By pure pot odds, you can call here for sure, but since it's a tournament, you have other considerations.

    Sure, this 2k in chips is great, but if you lose the hand, you are now lost about 33% of your stack. Not only that, now you have embolden this guy to keep raising every hand.

    If you had 77 or 88, I'd say call here. If you had any ace, I'd call here. As is, I think you fold here, you don't need to do anything agressive, and this is one of those moves where it hurts a lot more to lose than it helps to win.
  3. Briplay Briplay is offline

    Raleigh, NC
    United States

    Posts: 135
    Joined: Oct 07

    Dec 28th, 2007 (12/28/2007 10:54am) in reply to lordxixor101

    "this is one of those moves where it hurts a lot more to lose than it helps to win."
    well said.

    I see no need to get involved.. you can pick your spot and wait to get better than coinflip at best. I'd even raise Lords standards to 99+ A7+ depending on position, esp if you arent acting last..the disaster here is that this guys gets you to put chips in with mediocre hand, and then guy behind you has a nice hand and busts you.

    brian
  4. losfer losfer is offline

    Perry, MI
    United States

    Posts: 439
    Joined: Aug 07

    Dec 28th, 2007 (12/28/2007 11:03am) in reply to Briplay

    In this particular hand I think he's closing the action.

    Here are my thoughts:
    Someone is going to get all his chips soon and it would be nice if it could be you.
    44 is probably not much of a favorite over his range, but it is a favorite.
    The next time you'll have a chance to be closing the action he will have either busted or doubled up.
    It's early and you are too far from the money to pass up on an edge.

    It's a pretty marginal situation, but I like calling here. I don't hate folding though.
  5. tspoqar5 tspoqar5 is offline

    Poughkeepsie, NY
    United States

    Posts: 46
    Joined: Oct 07

    Dec 28th, 2007 (12/28/2007 11:42am) in reply to ECJENSEN56

    55x the blinds, early in a tournament? Fold, no need in risking a probable race. If you want to bust this guy wait for a bigger hand.
  6. Briplay Briplay is offline

    Raleigh, NC
    United States

    Posts: 135
    Joined: Oct 07

    Dec 28th, 2007 (12/28/2007 1:51pm) in reply to losfer

    interesting perspective. my comment about a shove behind was thinking forward to future hands where we might want to tangle with Mr. Maniac, and thing to avoid this early is to get allin and find someone behind us waking up with a hand.
    even tho we act last here, i see no edge to 44 here at this stage in tourny; but interesting to see other's viewpoints; pokerstove gives you 57% vs random and 54% against very loose range (any ace, king, queen, jack, T8+, braodway, any 2 suited)

    brian
  7. losfer losfer is offline

    Perry, MI
    United States

    Posts: 439
    Joined: Aug 07

    Dec 28th, 2007 (12/28/2007 2:15pm) in reply to Briplay

    I figured the edge was small, but it is real.

    I'm not much of tourney player, so my advice here might not have the right perspective. However, my understanding is that in order for it to be right to avoid small edges for the fear of going broke, you really need to be one of the better players. I usually assume that I'm better than average (I see no point in assuming otherwise even if it's not true) but that I'm not one of the best, so I try to get my money in good when ever I can.
  8. Briplay Briplay is offline

    Raleigh, NC
    United States

    Posts: 135
    Joined: Oct 07

    Dec 28th, 2007 (12/28/2007 2:30pm) in reply to losfer

    yea that's tru but imho i think you can do a LOT better that 57% at this table.
    Phil gordon had a FT article on this awhile ago that i found interesting..he describes a situation like this with AK (that comese up a lot) and the basic gist was that his table was soo good for stealing etc that it was mistake to take the gamble since his edge stealing etc was soo good.

    interesting discussion
    brian
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