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  1. DynamiteDraw DynamiteDraw is offline

    Berea, OH
    United States

    Posts: 24
    Joined: Feb 06

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 6:51pm)

    I see so many posts from players asking what it takes to play poker for a living etc... then 100 people respond with the right MTT strategy, what buyins to play, how many buyins u should have in your roll. I realize this is primarily an MTT site and all, but how can anyone suggest the best route to making a living playing poker is tournaments?? You need to be able to withstand prolonged droughts in cashes, play 50-60 hours a week and at inconvenient times, and have a very substantial bankroll to play consistently in the larger tournaments. With cash games you can play when you want, and with solid play and self discipline make very consistent money every month, including rakeback. I've been playing full time for two years at the 2-4 to 10-25 nl and pl stakes range and from my experience the best strategy is playing cash games as your primary game and some tournaments on the side. You also dont need to play even 2/4 or higher; .5/1 stakes are plenty enough to make a living if you play enough hands. You are also able to see the rewards of your good play in a much more consistent fashion than you ever will be able to with MTT results. Holdem cash games are getting somewhat tougher but there are a lot of opportunities in pl omaha cash games and will be for some time as new players enter the game. I'm not trying to rip MTTs or anything, I just think a lot of people only know tournaments and are misinformed as to the optimal way to make consistent money "as a living" playing poker. Just my two cents
  2. mathclub mathclub is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 7,010
    Joined: Jan 07

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 6:52pm) in reply to DynamiteDraw

    cash games are too hard.

    my head hurts post-flop.
    2
  3. KSCKID KSCKID is offline

    Centerville, MA
    United States

    Posts: 502
    Joined: May 06

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 6:56pm) in reply to mathclub

    menlo

    /thread/
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 6:57pm) in reply to DynamiteDraw

    You're assuming that what's "best" for you is "best" for everyone. A mistake that most cash game players who feel the need to denigrate tournaments...no worries.

    A lot of tournament players need the extra competitive rush of winning, change in play as the blinds increase, etc., to stay focused on playing their very best. Some people can play 2000-3000-more tournament hands a day, but couldn't do the same 4-tabling 2/4 NL all day.

    There's nothing wrong with any way that anyone chooses to play poker, especially to make a living at it. So why is it that tournament players rarely sound off about the drawbacks in cash game play, but cash game players feel the need to bag on tournaments?
     
  5. xxjondxx xxjondxx is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 1,720
    Joined: Apr 07

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 7:01pm) in reply to DynamiteDraw

    you can make a living do cash,sngs, mtts.... or a mix. Whatever your the best at or you can make the most money at is prob the best choice.
     11
  6. treetopallin treetopallin is offline

    Astoria, NY
    United States

    Posts: 320
    Joined: Mar 06

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 7:34pm) in reply to grapsfan

    I dont think he was trying to bag on tournaments graps. You have to see a reasoning to what he is saying. In tournaments you are playing against hunderds if not thousands of player. Thus making it harder to earn a profit. In a cash game you can pick your perfect table and exploit it. If the table is not profitable you leave. In a tournament, there is no leaving if you are running bad. Personaly i had some success in both tournaments and cash games. Although i find it very admirable for a person to make money playing tournaments. I do agree that cash games are more profitable and more concistent. People at the 2-4 nl level make a lot of money, i would venture to say 6 figures is not that uncommon. And the play is horrific and very easy to exploit.
  7. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 8:28pm) in reply to treetopallin

    No, I understand perfectly what he's saying. I agree with a lot of it, and what you're saying as well.

    But there are a lot of benefits to playing tournaments as well:

    - Potential for huge returns on a small investment
    - Stokes a competitive drive more than cash games
    - Play in a wider variety of circumstances (short stacked, deep, short tabled, etc.)
    - Defined start/stop times (some people like that kind of thing)

    Cash game players just never seem to want to hear, or believe, any of them.
     
  8. crapshot1 crapshot1 is offline

    Reigate
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 1,036
    Joined: Nov 07

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 8:55pm) in reply to xxjondxx

    i reckon cash games are for the more old-school poker player (he's gonna kill me for saying that)
     
  9. GambleAB GambleAB is offline 1. I'm awesome

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 5,493
    Joined: Apr 05

    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 9:09pm) in reply to DynamiteDraw

    Because tournaments are more sexy than cash games, and this is a site geared towards tournament players and fans.
     
  10. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

    Manhattan, KS
    United States

    Posts: 7,332
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    Nov 8th, 2007 (11/8/2007 10:51pm) in reply to GambleAB

    Yeah go single table bodog .50/1 NL for like 8 hrs a day and you could prolly make 1k or 2. Seriously...want to play poker for a living and you are a cash player? That site gives out/players create the biggest pots anywhere. Hmmm maybe I should heed my own advice. I figured out if you play 5 days/wk every week of the year you only need to make 250 bucks/day to make 70k in a year. This seems very weak to me (aside from variance of course), so even to make a decent living you wouldn't even have to play much. But yes, tourneys aren't everything. Play both, win both, and make a double killing.
  11. Going4It Going4It is offline

    Springfield, IL
    United States

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    Joined: Sep 06

    Nov 9th, 2007 (11/9/2007 9:37am) in reply to grapsfan

    Not sure if he is "bagging' on tourneys.
    But alot of tourney players admit that there is NO WAY they would call certain bets that they do if they were in a cash game.

    That is what sets cash apart from tourneys. Everyone gets pissed when some idiot who "has u covered" calls in a tourney w 9J only to hit a straight on 4th.

    ASK THOSE PLAYERS IF THEY WOULD CALL ALL IN FOR CASH ON A HAND LIKE THAT!!!
  12. deadeyed deadeyed is offline

    United Kingdom

    Posts: 458
    Joined: Jul 06

    Nov 9th, 2007 (11/9/2007 10:04am) in reply to grapsfan

    Graps already listed some benefits for tourney players, also, don't forget that a huge potential benefit is the tv exposure which can lead to lucrative sponsorship deals. Would Annette have landed the betfair deal if she was a cash game grinder? If you can make a living at poker, be it cash, mtt's, s/go's whatever......then it's all good.
  13. tupac2384 tupac2384 is offline

    Salt Lake City, UT
    United States

    Posts: 61
    Joined: Aug 07

    Nov 9th, 2007 (11/9/2007 9:15pm) in reply to DynamiteDraw

    tried switching to cash games for about two months, and didn't work out. Doesn't really fit my style of play. That or I was running bad for a month. Cash games=shit. tournies are fun. Oh course I am not playing for a living.
  14. z06fanatic z06fanatic is offline

    CT
    United States

    Posts: 887
    Joined: Apr 07

    Nov 9th, 2007 (11/9/2007 9:38pm) in reply to tupac2384

    to grapsfan - what drawbacks are there in cash games? You play as much as you want, whenever you want, you generally make more per hour, you have less variance(generally speaking),etc.....yes you dont get the "rush" but wouldn't your "rush" come from a higher paycheck?
     2
  15. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Nov 9th, 2007 (11/9/2007 10:48pm) in reply to z06fanatic

    You're playing the same deep-stack poker, hour after hour after hour.

    There's no end point, no conclusion to play to...which leads to one of the most difficult and frustrating parts of cash game play for a lot of people - When Do I Get Up?

    Even with rakeback and FPP programs, you're typically paying a hell of a lot more for your table time than MTT players.

    The medium-to-long-term variance might be less, but your short-term swings can be MUCH worse. Find me an online MTT pro that's gone off for $20k in a day, like your average 5/10 NL multi-tabling pro can and almost assuredly does.

    Some players don't draw the "rush" from cash the way you may think they do. Paul Phillips wasn't grinding poker games for the paycheck.
     
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