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"Playing to win." How early?

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  1. MD Fats MD Fats is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

    Posts: 240
    Joined: Aug 07

    Oct 27th, 2007 (10/27/2007 6:38pm)

    I have recently been experimenting with this concept. Playing to win is obviously something everyone aspires to do, unless you're just trying to cash (why?).

    I've been playing a lot of low buy-in MTTS (like $2-$10) to experiment with different ideas on when to play the "playing to win" game.

    When do you really open your game up to build the stack to have a shot at winning it all?

    1 - I've tried playing extremely tight until the bubble, getting there regularly with a mediocre stack, and trying to build that stack as the bubble approaches. Most of the time, in this situation, I get washed out around bubble time, and rarely get fortunate enough to build a FT run-calibur stack.

    2 - I've tried opening up really early, even as early as the 2nd blind session. Trying to spot the really weak players, and getting ALL their chips. Throwing pot control out the window, and coming at them hard in position when I think I have any edge. I find that a lot of the time, I'm busting or getting crippled at some point here, but when I don't, I'm often getting to the first break with 10,000 chips, sometimes as much as 12 or 15k. WAY more chips than I need at that point to have a great shot at the FT.

    3 - There's the happy medium, playing very TAG early, and opening up as the antes are approaching, trying to build a big enough stack to instill fear in the increasing aggression at this point in the tourny. Doing this, I obviously bust more than the 1st scenario, and less than the 2nd. And, obviously again, when I don't I have less chips than the 2nd, but more than the 1st.

    None of this is new or surprising. But in toying with these concepts, it made me wonder about other people's experiences and thoughts. (obviously the lvl buy-ins you are playing affects this judgement, so please specify what buy-ins your talkin about)

    When do you start "playing to win"? When do you decide its time to get that guys chips or a partcular pot or die trying?
  2. MD Fats MD Fats is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

    Posts: 240
    Joined: Aug 07

    Oct 27th, 2007 (10/27/2007 8:10pm) in reply to MD Fats

    Going through the HHs of my little study group trying to get some more specific info out of it, but I am very upset to realize I didn't keep track of the field sizes and AVG stack Ms in a way I could match them up to the tournies. SO PISSED @ myself (gonna have to re-try this experiment), but here's what I've pulled so far on my M-age.

    Scenario 1 - Although I am playing better poker here, I feel crazy to say it, this is my least favorite prospect (at least in the low buy-ins) for building the FT stack. Unless I pick up hands early, I can watch my M sink, and watch myself beging to start to tread and fight to keep it around 10 while waiting for hands. When I do get strong hands, I often to not gaid paid off well enough to pay for the expensive wait. I do survive into the middle/mid-late stages of the tourney often here, but rarely with an M large enough to ward off big stacks at that point in the tourney.

    Scenario 2 - By far the most "fun" way to play. Pick out weak players, and go for the chips. Obviously, I bust out of most of these tournies during the 1st round, trying to build a big stack. In the times that I survive the 1st & 2nd rounds, I'm looking at a 70-100M, and from those points, I rarely don't make a FT run. Although by far playing the worst poker early, much easier to be very profitable with FT hits.

    Scenario 3 - A more balanced approach, and not suprisingly, the most likely to be long-term profitable. Avging a 20-40 M @ breaks 1 & 2, and staying alive an acceptable amount of time through the early rounds, I find myself with a chipstack large enough not to get bullied, and just enough chips to get super-agressive later for more chips. Don't make the FT run nearly as often from here as scenario 2, but have more opportunities to get lucky to.

    I don't know, I'm beginning to wonder if playing the super-aggressive early style, with much more conservative BR management strategies might be a profitable venture, in the lower lvls. Thoughts? Anyone tried this experiment and blogged it? A 1-person study group isn't the most informative endeavor.

    *edit* should also add, i don't think anyone can win playing 1 style. I'm not looking for the best way, or best style or anything, I just like to explore the inner-workings of things.
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