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PLO hand help please, flop bottom 2 facing a pot bet what to do?

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  1. bantersaurus bantersaurus is offline

    Cardiff
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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 7:40am)

    posting this hand for a friend, basically looking to see what line is best here. we had different views, i thought he should jam it looks like the other guy could have AA KK here a large % of time. another friend thought he should flat it and re assess/play poker on the turn, and the guy himself thought it was a fold

    pokerstars Game #27112435937: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/04/15 7:17:40 ET
    Table 'Minkar II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: mwstachio ($163 in chips)
    Seat 2: lauhagge ($54.40 in chips)
    Seat 3: yossie ($61.80 in chips)
    Seat 4: asxetos333 ($32.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: Mahotonluppo ($104.90 in chips)
    Seat 6: minoujojo ($54.70 in chips)
    yossie: posts small blind $0.50
    asxetos333: posts big blind $1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to mwstachio [Ac 4c 5d 7s]

    Mahotonluppo: folds
    minoujojo: folds
    mwstachio: calls $1
    lauhagge: calls $1
    yossie: raises $4 to $5

    mwstachio: calls $4
    lauhagge: calls $4
    *** FLOP *** [Qc 5s 4h]
    yossie: bets $15.20
    mwstachio: ????
  2. CJDeman CJDeman is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 8:17am) in reply to bantersaurus

    I think this is a fold. You still have a player to act behind you, you have no redraw other than the full house and if you are not already behind (which you probably are), you will be up against hands like AA or AQ and probably some kind of straight draw (if the 3rd player calls), making you a pretty big dog in the hand.

    EDIT: I misread the hand history, no indication that 3rd player has hit this at all. Meh, I probably shove.
     
  3. aad aad is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 8:19am) in reply to bantersaurus

    Rainbow board, the ONLY hand you need to be affraid of is QQ (Q4 or Q5 is unlikely the way he played it). They way he played it looks like AA/KK which means you're ahead so I would flat and if a Q, K or A comes on the turn you should probably fold.
  4. arjun13 arjun13 is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 9:09am) in reply to bantersaurus

    why are you limping this pre? open it.

    i would flat here with a player to act behind, play poker on later streets
  5. snarlcakes snarlcakes is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 9:42am) in reply to bantersaurus

    Easy repop here. Your hand is good at the time and more than likely a favorite to hold up. Also, the other two players are both somewhat short stacked. Most likely hands for yossie is AAxx, KKxx, or Akqj. (Which would be the worst hand to see) Odds are though he has aaxx.

    Also, preflop either show strength and raise or fold.
    1
  6. bantersaurus bantersaurus is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 10:08am) in reply to snarlcakes

    agree with pretty much all the comments above. too often guys stack off with AA and KK here to pass up the opportunity to shove and get it in imo.

    the way the hand played out, mwstachio folded to the $15 flop bet in fear of the guy to act behind
    Thread Starter
  7. Duffy08 Duffy08 is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 11:44am) in reply to bantersaurus

    if they were deeper this would become a clear fold...

    but then again I think it's still a clear fold.
    just fold pre if you're going to limp it like that.

    those saying you're a favorite are crazy since you have 0 redraws.
     1
  8. MyJobisYou MyJobisYou is offline Banned Scammer

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 11:53am) in reply to bantersaurus

    I think it's pretty silly everyone who has commented is assuming all this player opens with is AAxx/KKxx....and correct me if im wrong but isn't the villain on the button here? Honestly I think it's a pretty standard button raise preflop, but I believe it's hard to disect a PLO hand history with no previous knowledge of player's opening ranges. Play as you will, but I like the fold here UNLESS the villain has under 30bbs here. Very possible he has 789x or 5678.
  9. snarlcakes snarlcakes is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 12:32pm) in reply to MyJobisYou

    He is in the small blind.

    When you take into consideration its small stakes, small blind, and small stack you should be able to narrow his range down. A big pocket pair, aaxx or kkxx. Repop him and scoop the pot.
    1
  10. cleptophobe cleptophobe is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 12:42pm) in reply to snarlcakes

    lol everyone who posted in this thread play PLO more.
  11. RonDworkin RonDworkin is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 12:47pm) in reply to arjun13

    What the OP should do is fold this hand. Its not a great hand, and is in fact one that will cause trouble - flopping non-nut straights and straight draws and hands like bottom 2. Low 3 card rundowns with a gap at the top are the suck. Its a hand that could be opened in LP by an experienced player (still not going to be a big winner for him), but the way the hand played and the nature of the question suggests that the OP is not such a player and this hand will be a loser for him.
  12. bantersaurus bantersaurus is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 1:19pm) in reply to cleptophobe

     
    Originally Posted by cleptophobe View Post

    lol everyone who posted in this thread play PLO more.

    care to share knowledge? u say its a fold i take it? the three of us debating the hand are new to PLO so yes we will play more to learn more, thanks

    good points btw duffy
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  13. snarlcakes snarlcakes is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 1:54pm) in reply to bantersaurus

    Couple last points for you bantersaurus.

    Lets say yossie is a good player and he will also raise with connectors in this spot as well. His range of hands is still 5678, 6789, 8910j, 910jq, aaxx, kkxx. (Reasonsable range) You are still beating his range. 3 times you are huge favorite(8910j, aaxx,kkxx), a favorite against qj109, and a dog against 5678 and 6789.

    Also, if you are not willing to take this spot in that position than you have no business limping. Lastly, flatting his terrible here. Anything besides 9 and 10 are scare cards. Example: 2 falls and you feel comfortable but yossies has aa3x. (Very possible hand) Your now beat. Never flat in this spot.
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  14. bantersaurus bantersaurus is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 2:28pm) in reply to snarlcakes

    good analysis thx, agree too that flatting is bad in that spot cos like u say unless its a miracle 4 or 5 u can't really be fully happy with any turn card.

    so all in > fold > call
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  15. bombtrack311 bombtrack311 is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 2:44pm) in reply to cleptophobe

     
    Originally Posted by cleptophobe View Post

    lol everyone who posted in this thread play PLO more.

    easy fold imo
  16. WiCane WiCane is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 3:16pm) in reply to bantersaurus

    Easy fold preflop. Your hand isn't even close to being good enough to play for a raise OOP. Add that with the limpers are going to call, playing A754 OOP isn't profitable at all.

    After that, I probably re-pot it but not at all happy about it. Flatting is the worst option out of everything after the flop since there isn't a single turn card besides 5 or 4 that is good for your hand.
     
  17. rushrising rushrising is offline

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    Apr 15th, 2009 (4/15/2009 4:31pm) in reply to bantersaurus

    I dont think playing A457 ( position or OOP )will hit the flop hard enough to get it in right away. much rather play hands like 4679/4578 ( i think the A is a bad card in your hand other than it's suited ).

    Looking at your hand, i think folding would be better option. u have no redraws other than back door nut flush/st8. Not many safe turn if u peel (opponent easily hit higher 2 pair ). getting it in $60 with bottom 2 with ONLY A as your over is pretty risky.

    If i have AK45 on the same board. i dont mind getting it in. That's just me. GL
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