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Here are some hands from tonights session I'd like some advice on.
Full Tilt Poker Game #3587645590: Table Panther (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 1:43:47 ET - 2007/09/17
Seat 1: ThaGoodLife ($11.15)
Seat 2: lkl99 ($3.60)
Seat 3: Mailbox Arson ($1.50)
Seat 4: Skonky_skonk ($19.65)
Seat 5: Ryan Olsen ($9.90)
Seat 6: bballte55 ($8.35)
lkl99 posts the small blind of $0.05
Mailbox Arson has 5 seconds left to act
Mailbox Arson posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ryan Olsen [5h Ks As 4s]
Skonky_skonk raises to $0.35
Ryan Olsen calls $0.35
bballte55 folds
ThaGoodLife folds
lkl99 calls $0.30
Mailbox Arson calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [6s 3c Ts]
lkl99 bets $0.10
Mailbox Arson has 15 seconds left to act
Mailbox Arson folds
Skonky_skonk folds
Ryan Olsen raises to $0.90
lkl99 calls $0.80
*** TURN *** [6s 3c Ts] [9d]
lkl99 bets $1.60
Ryan Olsen has 15 seconds left to act
Ryan Olsen calls $1.60
*** RIVER *** [6s 3c Ts 9d] [5s]
lkl99 bets $0.75, and is all in
Ryan Olsen calls $0.75
*** SHOW DOWN ***
lkl99 shows [7d 8s 9c 8c] a straight, Ten high
Ryan Olsen shows [5h Ks As 4s] a flush, Ace high
Ryan Olsen wins the pot ($7.15) with a flush, Ace high
lkl99 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.90 | Rake $0.75
Board: [6s 3c Ts 9d 5s]
Seat 1: ThaGoodLife (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: lkl99 (small blind) showed [7d 8s 9c 8c] and lost with a straight, Ten high
Seat 3: Mailbox Arson (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Skonky_skonk folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Ryan Olsen showed [5h Ks As 4s] and won ($7.15) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: bballte55 didn't bet (folded) -
Dealt to Ryan Olsen [5h Ks As 4s]. This is usually a hand to see a flop with if it's not for a full raise.
*** FLOP *** [6s 3c Ts]
This is a good flop for your hand. Even though, you don't have a made hand, you have 8-outs to the nut flush and 6 additional out to the OESD (2 outs were also counted with the flush.). You have enough outs to continue unless the board pairs.
I like your raise on the flop b/c it gets more money in the pot before your opponent can fold when the flush gets there.
The call on the turn is okay, also. -
Full Tilt Poker Game #3587984657: Table Panther (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 2:39:02 ET - 2007/09/17
Seat 1: ThaGoodLife ($5.85)
Seat 2: anvilofstars ($9)
Seat 3: Da nuh nuh ($21.95)
Seat 4: Crash75 ($7.70)
Seat 5: Ryan Olsen ($15.65)
Seat 6: g-mannv ($1.05)
Crash75 posts the small blind of $0.05
Ryan Olsen posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ryan Olsen [Ks Qd 9s Ad]
g-mannv folds
ThaGoodLife has 15 seconds left to act
ThaGoodLife calls $0.10
anvilofstars calls $0.10
Da nuh nuh raises to $0.55
Crash75 has 15 seconds left to act
Crash75 folds
Ryan Olsen calls $0.45
ThaGoodLife folds
anvilofstars calls $0.45
*** FLOP *** [Jd 6d 3h]
Ryan Olsen has 15 seconds left to act
Ryan Olsen checks
anvilofstars checks
Da nuh nuh bets $1.80
Ryan Olsen calls $1.80
anvilofstars folds
*** TURN *** [Jd 6d 3h] [Qh]
Ryan Olsen has 15 seconds left to act
Ryan Olsen checks
Da nuh nuh bets $5.40
Ryan Olsen calls $5.40
*** RIVER *** [Jd 6d 3h Qh] [4s]
Ryan Olsen has 15 seconds left to act
Ryan Olsen checks
Da nuh nuh checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Da nuh nuh shows [Ah 2h Ac 8s] a pair of Aces
Ryan Olsen mucks
Da nuh nuh wins the pot ($14.60) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $16.20 | Rake $1.60
Board: [Jd 6d 3h Qh 4s]
Seat 1: ThaGoodLife folded before the Flop
Seat 2: anvilofstars folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Da nuh nuh (button) showed [Ah 2h Ac 8s] and won ($14.60) with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: Crash75 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Ryan Olsen (big blind) mucked [Ks Qd 9s Ad] - a pair of Queens
Seat 6: g-mannv didn't bet (folded) -
Thanks you have good advice
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Dealt to Ryan Olsen [Ks Qd 9s Ad] another good hand. You have connectors and you're double suited. Seems like you're starting to pick some good starting hands.
*** FLOP *** [Jd 6d 3h] This is a moderately good flop for you. You have the nut flush draw and a back door str8 draw.
Note: Preflop, one villian makes a PSB, this usually (at this level of play) means he has [AAxx] and you'll have to improve to win. His PSB on the flop sort of confirms that read. Most low blind PLO players don't slow down betting when they have [AAxx]. They are prone to getting trapped with their unimproved [AAxx] hands.
I think it's worth the call on the flop to try & catch your flush b/c the [AA] guy will likely pay you off most of the time.
*** TURN *** [Jd 6d 3h] [Qh]
Okay, you didn't make your hand on the turn, but you picked up 2 outs to the nut str8. You also make a pair and you might win with the [K] or [9] or [Q] on the river for 2 pair or trips
You have a couple things to worry about here. You might be up against a Heart draw and/or a duplicatiing str8 draw for 1/2 the pot.
Continuing at this point is questionable. You aren't a favorite and you only have one more card to come. Even if you catch 2 pair you might not win, since you don't know if your villian has the flush draw or str8 cards with his [AA]'s. You're a little less than 2:1 dog to get there, but you are getting 2:1 pot odds to make the call. It depends on how much gamble you have. If you miss, you'll have to fold the river. If your str8 or 2 pair get there and it's a heart, you'll have a tough decision, but will probably be safer to fold any various danger cards. 2 pair or trips without a heart and you'll have to call since they beat the most likely hand your opponent holds, most of the time.
Omaha Hi Simulation
<span>40 trials (Exhaustive)</span>
board: Jd6d3hQh
<table border="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th>Hand</th><th>Pot equity</th><th>Wins</th><th>Ties</th></tr><tr><td>KsQd9sAd</td><td>37.50%</td><td>15</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>Ah2hAc8s</td><td>62.50%</td><td>25</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>
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Very nice post. I've noticed players commiting themselves with AA. I felt my call on the turn was unjustified so I'm not sure why i did it. Perhaps I was thinking I had implied odds.
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Full Tilt Poker Game #3588743361: Table Ramrod (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6:00:39 ET - 2007/09/17
Seat 3: playanytwocards ($8.35)
Seat 4: AmIbigblind ($10.35)
Seat 5: Ryan Olsen ($25.45)
Seat 6: kontak ($12.05)
Ryan Olsen posts the small blind of $0.05
kontak posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ryan Olsen [Qd 6h 6s Js]
revendk sits down
playanytwocards calls $0.10
AmIbigblind raises to $0.45
revendk adds $4.65
Ryan Olsen calls $0.40
kontak folds
playanytwocards folds
*** FLOP *** [5s Ts 2d]
Ryan Olsen checks
AmIbigblind bets $1
Ryan Olsen calls $1
*** TURN *** [5s Ts 2d] [9h]
Ryan Olsen checks
AmIbigblind bets $2
Ryan Olsen raises to $9.10
AmIbigblind calls $6.90, and is all in
Ryan Olsen shows [Qd 6h 6s Js]
AmIbigblind shows [Ac 2h Jd Ah]
Uncalled bet of $0.20 returned to Ryan Olsen
*** RIVER *** [5s Ts 2d 9h] [Kc]
Ryan Olsen shows a straight, King high
AmIbigblind shows a pair of Aces
Ryan Olsen wins the pot ($19.90) with a straight, King high
AmIbigblind is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $20.90 | Rake $1
Board: [5s Ts 2d 9h Kc]
Seat 3: playanytwocards folded before the Flop
Seat 4: AmIbigblind (button) showed [Ac 2h Jd Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: Ryan Olsen (small blind) showed [Qd 6h 6s Js] and won ($19.90) with a straight, King high
Seat 6: kontak (big blind) folded before the Flop -
Very lucky hand for you. You raised the max on a draw and caught. Your opponent, whose aces didn't improve after the turn, called all in, and still had you beat. Starting hand was marginal.
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Dealt to Ryan Olsen [Qd 6h 6s Js]. You have slipped backwards a bit. This is a very marginal hand.
The [6s6h] doesn't add any (or much) value to this hand. If you flop a set, you have to worry about over cards. If many low cards come with the [6] you will be facing the possibility of str8's.
So, you have 2 elements of a Omaha hand: (a) a 2 card str8 & (b) a 2 card flush (3rd nut flush).
Pre-flop you are in the sb, so you'll be OOP for the entire hand. You have a weak hand, but you call a PSB. This is very bad PLO play.
*** FLOP *** [5s Ts 2d]. This is a marginal flop for you. You could be drawing nearly dead, if your opponent has the [A] or [K] high flush draw.
On the flop you make another very marginal play by calling a PSB.
*** TURN *** [5s Ts 2d] [9h]
Now, you get trapped with a 3rd nut flush draw and an OESD. The OESD in Omaha is like having a gutshot str8 draw in holdem. Despite, your weak holding you stumble into a good semi-bluff play. This would be a good play if you were playing good PLO players that have the ability to fold marginal hands. Unimproved [Ac 2h Jd Ah] is marginal hand, but you are playing a low limit player and he doesn't have the ability to fold a one-pair hand when it's [AA].
You get lucky and hit the nuts on the river.
The only good thing you should learn from this hand:>>>>>> Micro-limit (buy-in) players will not laydown [AA], so you have very little opportunity to bluff and be successful. You must make a hand that beats [AA]'s. They don't understand how weak one pair is in Omaha, especially when they are calling raises and/or check raises. They just know they have [AA] and don't get to concerned about your hand. You have to show them a better hand. -
I know my preflop call was bad, but I want to make sure I post hands with interesting/expensive situations so I can embarass myself if I have played bad and learn from it, and I got carried away calling with the flushdraw. But the turn left me in an interesting situation I think. From my perspective at the time my hand had just improved, and his bet at the turn showed much more weakness than all his previous bets. So I decided to go over the top as much as I could to induce a fold of his weak hand, and if not, hope to draw to several outs.
Youre absolutely right, I've seen several situations where they dont fold AA no matter what the board shows. What is my equity against a pair here with my draws? -
Your outs are the following: 4 8's, 4 K's, 2 6's, and 6 spades (can't count the K, 8 and 6 of spades since they are already accounted for). 16 outs total. There are 44 unknown cards, so you are a 2.75 to 1 underdog to catch on the river. I'm assuming you are not talking about fold equity because that is zilch, given these low limits.
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Sorry, you already have 6 of spades, so you have 17 outs total. Only 2.59 to 1 underdog. Incidently, there is an Omaha calculator on this site, also cardplayer.com and probably others. Just plug in the hands and it does this automatically.
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I ran this scenario in the calculator and it says I have 42.41% to win 57.59% to lose.
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I ran this too, and you are right. However, there are 40 cards unknown now. Still, you should be more than a 2 to 1 underdog. Maybe bluedog can shed some light on this. 40 divided by 17=2.35. I'm missing something here.
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Im guessing 40 divided by 17 would state I had 17 outs of 57 available cards. What you should do is do, 23 divided by 17
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Lets start that count again:
You see 4 cards in your hand. On the turn, there are 4 cards on board. You know what 8 cards are.
From 52 card deck the. That leaves 44 unknow cards.
If you have 17 outs, there are (44 - 17 = 27) cards for the villian.
That makes you a 27:17 dog to win the pot. That's 1;58:1 DOG for you to outdraw the [AA] hand.
Omaha Hi Simulation
<span>40 trials (Exhaustive)</span>
board: 5sTs2d9h
<table border="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th>Hand</th><th>Pot equity</th><th>Wins</th><th>Ties</th></tr><tr><td>Qd6h6sJs</td><td>42.50%</td><td>17</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>Ac2hJdAh</td><td>57.50%</td><td>23</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>
I forgot to mention. The Simulation software shows 17 outs for [Q66J] hand & 23 for [AAJ2]. That's because we know the exact cards after we turn them face up after the hand is over. On the turn the closest we can approximate is that [QJ66] is 38.5:61.5 dog to complete a winning hand based on 44 unknown cards. -
Ah, now I get it. Thanks BLUEDOG.
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