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Are the Poker Schools and Plethora of Poker Books Creating Poker Clones?

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  1. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 427
    Joined: May 05

    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 1:18am)

    There's quite a few poker schools with successful players like NSX, Sheets, Gank, WeaponX and others each teaching dozens and dozens of players, in addition to the effect that forums and poker books (most of which give very similar advice) are having.

    I've noticed in most of the rebuy tourneys on stars and Paradise that many of the players are playing a very, very similar style, basically tight but very aggressive. Not a lot of calling and a lot of raising and constantly betting to any check whether they have something or not, usually 2/3-4/5 of the pot and often raising with draws. Thats basically how guys like Sheets and Weapon play and now it seems like they have hoards of clones out there now.

    I dislike this in a way because one I like to be the aggressor and in control of pots and two all of these players are playing a lot better, who would otherwise be fish and donkeys. But on the other hand I like it in that this cookie cutter aggressive style can be easily be exploited with a counter-style (think Alan Goehring's style or Mizrachi) plus many of these guys are becoming easy to read and trap since so many people are playing the same.

    Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?
     
  2. gank gank is offline 'tis always ganktober

    Oldwick, NJ
    United States

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    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 1:51am) in reply to Qcity

    Ok here is the thing about poker, it is a ever evolving game, and to be sucessful you must adjust your game as it evolves, the players who stay on top are the ones that have a strong grasp on their opponents and how they think and how they will act. Yes poker schools and poker books will create a noticable evolution in the game, as more players are thrusted into more "proper" plays, but if EVERYONE were to play the same there would be no long-term winners. so you have to understand there will always be a new way to sucessfully attack a player, but you have to figure out what it is and have it in your arsenal. This is also why you will see some names rise to the top for a while and then disappear off the map, because they have trouble evolving their game as the game in general advances in theory etc. etc.

    To be the best, you have to beat the best.....but if the best are always changing, you have to be able to beat everyone!
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  3. Disrespect Disrespect is offline

    Adelaide
    Australia

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    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 1:54am) in reply to gank

    well said gank.
  4. Qcity Qcity is offline

    Thailand

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    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 3:20am) in reply to gank

    Well said Gank, my thoughts too.

    While there are many different styles of play, it seems these players are playing one of the best styles if not the best and winningest style. There's a reason that this style has been successful for so long because it works. No matter what your style against these guys you get put into tough situations. An example, you are one the cutoff with a medium stack and make your standard raise with 99 and the poker school guy reraises you on the button 2 x more your initial raise, this is the second time he has reraised you and he has same size stack. What do you do?

    Against other styles who just call or fold or min raise, the hand is much easier to play but against this guy that keeps reraising its much tougher as they keep putting you to tough decisions. You have several options:

    - call and hope to hit a set. However by calling and playing passive you are burning a lot of chips while letting the poker school guy be the aggressor, take the loose pots and take you off your game. Also anytime you call/fold fairly large pots like this with a medium stack you are just accelerating the time before you are shortstacked. If you go card dead the next 30 hands, which will likely happen, you will have wished you played those nines differently. Even if you hit your set, your implied odds might only be a continuation bet since most of the time he won't have much or won't like the flop and will thus fold.

    - Fold. Not a bad choice however nines on the cutoff is a pretty strong hand especially against a guy capable of reraising with a wide range of hands, or just on a pure steal. The chances that someone has an overpair to 99 with 3 players left to act is only about 7%. So if you often fold in this spot you will be often folding the best hand.

    - Reraise all in. If he is a good player you are representing a lot of strength and he will fold pretty much everything except the top hands unless he's getting really good odds (something to keep in mind) but often here you will be called and be dominated or at best a coinflip. If he was on a steal with a hand like 66 or J2 (yes I've had good tight aggressive players raise me with hands that bad on the button) he will fold and think twice about trying to run you over in the future, allowing you to play your game.

    As you can see all three options have their advantages and disadvantages but none are hugely positive ev. So this style is so good and tried and true that its hard to counteract.
     
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  5. Qcity Qcity is offline

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    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 4:38pm) in reply to Qcity

    Has anyone else noticed this or have thoughs on the topic. I think its a pretty interesting topic.
     
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  6. Lenny Lenny is offline lail henny!

    Nashville, TN
    United States

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    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 4:45pm) in reply to Qcity

    Also, the people who take the time, energy, and money to invest in a poker education are still a pretty minute portion of all of those who play poker. The vast majority of people play poker for entertainment and would cringe at the idea of reading a book, much less going to "school" for poker.

    How many of the 80,000 playing on party or stars at any one time would you guess spend more than an hour a week thinking about how to improve their game? My guess would be less than 5,000 and that's being generous ; )
  7. Qcity Qcity is offline

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    May 25th, 2006 (5/25/2006 6:04pm) in reply to Lenny

    True but a lot of these players gravitate towards the big nightly tourneys. So the $10 rebuy on stars probably has a 1/3 of the field of these players in addition to the professionals playing in the tourney.
     
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