I played in a $345 4 person winner take all tourney today and after I obv lost in the first round I see this hand to start the final match with no chatting

>pokerstars Game #37341839953: Tournament #226478152, $330+$15 USD Hold'em No
>Limit - Match Round II, Level I (20/40) - 2009/12/29 1:52:04 ET
>Table '226478152 1' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
>Seat 1: Persephone (3000 in chips)
>Seat 2: TrinhDaMastr (3000 in chips)
>TrinhDaMastr: posts small blind 20
>Persephone: posts big blind 40
>*** HOLE CARDS ***
>TrinhDaMastr: raises 2920 to 2960
>Persephone: raises 40 to 3000 and is all-in
>TrinhDaMastr: folds
>Uncalled bet (40) returned to Persephone
>Persephone collected 5920 from pot
>Persephone: doesn't show hand
>*** SUMMARY ***
>Total pot 5920 | Rake 0
>Seat 1: Persephone (big blind) collected (5920)
>Seat 2: TrinhDaMastr (button) (small blind) folded before Flop

So I email Stars and they tell me its allowed. A brief clip from their reply

"This equality of �total entry cost� and �total equity� extends to any strategy, of any number of players in any sized Heads-Up Tournament with a knockout structure. A team could enter 127 players in a 128 player tournament and their equity would be exactly equal to their entry cost, no matter how they were drawn.

I hope this explains our reasoning for not prohibiting the practice of playing heads-up knock out tournaments in teams. "

Whats so ridiculous is that in the other 1st round match the players just went all in and called with K high or something crazy. So I was basically facing 3 guys teaming up to take my 1 buyin. Now I understand that they are not stealing equity since they put up 3 buyins to my 1 but I still think its ridiculous stars allows this. Essentially it turns the other 1st round heads up match into a sham which is not fair to me. usually I watch the other match to get reads on the players I may be facing in the next round. I am in shock that stars allows this to happen and I think you should be too. When I signed up to play a 4 person winner take all tourney I obv assumed that I would be playing 4 seperate players not sharing equity and that the other 1st round match would not just be a sht show.

plenty of threads on this. not cheating, not illegal

The matches are heads up so its much different - but I still feel like I got fleeced.

How is it fair that the players in the other 1st round match can play however they want so I get no read on their style yet they can watch my 1st round match when they know its real? I love stars and they usually get this stuff right but this is definitely not right.
Do you not see the advantage they gain by being able to create a sham in the other heads up match with nothing on the line....while they watch my match which is real?

So if you know this is the plan, couldn't you change your style and then have the advantage?

old news.....start table selecting

Kinda surprised Persephone is doing this, as he's been a HSHU SNG reg for a long while.

Pretty good money if they play in teams of three like that for that price and split the winnings. I don't see how it's fair, but it's not breaking any rules I guess. According to stars response, that is.

 

Originally Posted by EddieO

Don't yo9u guys see what a horrible rule this is. By allowing this they turn the other 1st round match into a total sham. So they are allowed to watch my match and pick up tendancies while I can't do the same for them. This is not fair 100%.

For everyone saying, "play better" and "table Select" think about what BS it is they they are allowed to play out the other 1st round match however they see fit, yet they get to watch my match.....NOT FAIR, and they definitely gain an advantage by doing this.

agreed but its not cheating and pstars isnt goin to stop it so theres nothing 2 be done about it, move on

it's obv angle-shooting which is a douchey move imo but to each their own. it doesn't violate the TOS and that's all that matters when it comes down to it. like argentinaboy said, it happens and there's nothing you can do about it, so move on.

so if it gives eddie "no disadvantage", then why would the team attempt this?

 

Because it lowers variance. My lord how do people not see this?

no it doesnt...if the team of three are ganging up on one guy...all they can profit is one buyin...no different that playing one heads up match...well, its actually worse...they pay three tourney fees versus one...how do you not see this?

 

Originally Posted by EddieO

I am forced to play a 1st round match they can watch and learn and study my play in....my opponent in the 2nd round doesn't have to play a 1st round match I can watch.........how is it difficult to understand that is not fiar??? So you don't think they can gain any edge by watching me play the 1st match before they get to play the second round? Think deeper people they definitely gain equity here and its not hard to see.

fwiw eddie.. hu sng regs are going to be 4tabling min, which means they really won�t have the time to be watchin ur match.. unless on the off chance that they can�t get any action..

From reading your post, and as a hu reg as these stakes myself, hu sngs are alot softer at ftp, they are swarming with regs at stars and its pretty rare u�ll get a soft game unless ur a reg urself.

wanna join my team?

either find teammates of ur own, or just open ship in your first match so they cant get a read, but im sure your panties are in too much of a bunch for those antics

 

Originally Posted by Gags30

it's not angle shooting...it's not cheating

if you play a heads up match and the other tables match happens to be over in 1 hand..KK vs AA aipf...you don't get to watch them and watch their play...did they 'cheat'? clearly no. this is the exact same thing.

they're not cheating, you're not being 'cheated'...give it up

Pstars, as of now, allows this type of play so I'm not calling the other players cheats or angle shooters or anything like that. If pstars says they allow it then more power to them for taking advantage of a f'd up rule thats stars has implimented.
Its very simple....I have to play a 1st round match.....they do not.....they get to scout my 1st round match.....I do not get to scout their 1st round match....that is what is wrong with this situation. Your example of AA vs KK is just foolish and has literally nothing to do with anything in this situation. Are you friends with a bunch of gusy that do this or something? Are you on a "Team"? Anyone that understands poker should easily see what a disadvantage this can put me at. Not only am I not able to get reads on my opponents....but I could very possibly get a bad read on my 2nd round opponent thinking his 1st round match was a real all in and super light call and not a sham match. How am I supposed to know that the 1st match is just a sham and doesn't even matter. Don't you see the implications of having heads up matches going on where teamates are playing each other with no implications as to the winner? Just because they may not take the opportunity to watch my 1st round match doesn't mean that makes things fair.

Just because this rule would be hard to enforce does not mean teams should be allowed in 4 person HU SNGs. Multiaccounting and many different rules of online poker are very hard to enforce, but that doesn't mean that they are allowed.

By using stars' analogy in the examply they send me 127 out of 128 teams in a tourney could be working together. Now extrapolate that theory out and realize that if I am forced to play a real match every round that my opponents can scout, and all of their matches are just shams....do you really think I am still at the same EV as I would be facing 127 random accounts? The answer is clearly no. In a 4 man HU SNG they definitely gain an edge and that edge is just magnified when you use the 127 team examply. I really hope stars changes this rule, this makes no sense to me. Either that or explicity state that this kind of action is allowed in the lobby or something.

Imagine if this was a live 4 person HU SNG. All 4 opponents sit down at 2 serperate table side by side. I start my match vs random, and on the other table the two guys go all in and call blind, then the winner gets up and proceeds to watch my entire heads up match. If I won my 1st round match do you really think it would be fair that my 2nd round opponent got to stand ont he side and watch my whole match while I had no opportunity to do the same??

I really think stars just dropped the ball here and I think if this issue makes it high enough up their management chain that this rules will be changed as it makes no sense to me at all. Stars obviously loves these guys paying 3x the rake but they need to realize how wrong this rule is.