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I'm not sure if I should go for supernova status (Not Elite) or just grind Fulltilt and get rakeback. Here is what I'm thinking and also what obstacles I have in my way.
Please help me make the right decision. Here is some information before hand:
Bankroll $600-$1000.
Game: SNG's $5-$10, up to $20 and $30
Can Multi Table up to 12 but am better at doing it with 6-8 tables.
Obviously my goal is to move up to at least the $20's and $30's to make decent money
Will be in school in the fall full time. 2 full days 9-5. 2 days with one class each time. 3 full days off. Saturday and Sunday I will be off.
Basically I am looking to grind SNG's for a living while in school. I have a bankroll from my scores this year. I will also have school loans. I have some money set away for bills as well. I am currently working part time but will not be in the fall.
What I am asking is whether I should do this on stars or tilt. Is it worth it to go for supernova status only dedicating roughly 15-20 hours a week on stars? Or should I just grind on full tilt and get the rake back immediately?
What are the advantages of hitting supernova status on stars? Do you get any type of sponsorship? Or do you have to hit elite status for it to even be worth it?
Oh and this is of course assuming that I am good enough to do this and will not go broke....
Thanks for your time all!! -
Phi
aka tennisee
Posts: 16,250
Joined: Mar 06Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 2:09am) in reply to AshThePro
I am a platinum star and I average 25% rakeback on pokerstars. So I would definitely say Supernova > FTP 27% rakeback.
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you can exchange FPPs for cash.
Originally Posted by AshThePro
Wait, so basically you start getting <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> on stars when you hit platinum star? Please explain.......
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Posts: 74
Joined: Nov 07Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 2:18am) in reply to telks
Yeah, but from the looks of it, exchanging the FPP's for cash isn't really worth it is it? I mean you have to exchange an enormous amount for like $50.....
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Phi
aka tennisee
Posts: 16,250
Joined: Mar 06Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 2:21am) in reply to AshThePro
You are correct those cash bonuses for $50 are a ripoff.Originally Posted by AshThePro
Yeah, but from the looks of it, exchanging the FPP's for cash isn't really worth it is it? I mean you have to exchange an enormous amount for like $50.....
I average $100 T$ for every 5,000FPPs playing the 280FPP Hyper Turbo Sattys to the $11 Quarter Million -
you are probably wasting time hurting your $/h at your regular games. Also they have been having those specials which you get cash instead of bonus money and its more money per FPP also.
Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU
You are correct those cash bonuses for $50 are a ripoff.Originally Posted by AshThePro
Yeah, but from the looks of it, exchanging the FPP's for cash isn't really worth it is it? I mean you have to exchange an enormous amount for like $50.....
I average $100 T$ for every 5,000FPPs playing the 280FPP Hyper Turbo Sattys to the $11 Quarter Million -
Actually your wrong.
Originally Posted by telks
you are probably wasting time hurting your $/h at your regular games. Also they have been having those specials which you get cash instead of bonus money and its more money per FPP also.Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU
You are correct those cash bonuses for $50 are a ripoff.Originally Posted by AshThePro
Yeah, but from the looks of it, exchanging the FPP's for cash isn't really worth it is it? I mean you have to exchange an enormous amount for like $50.....
I average $100 T$ for every 5,000FPPs playing the 280FPP Hyper Turbo Sattys to the $11 Quarter Million
Even the special June Bonuses arent more than what I make playing the 280FPP Sattys.
And I can play through 5,000FPPs in about 20 minutes so it def doesnt hurt my $/hr -
Ok , so it costs 10,000 FPPs for $160. you can turn 10,000 FPPs into $200. So you show $40 more profit doing this in a 40 minute period. so if you make >$60/h then you should buy the point but <$60/h you should play the point sngs.
Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU
Actually your wrong.Originally Posted by telks
you are probably wasting time hurting your $/h at your regular games. Also they have been having those specials which you get cash instead of bonus money and its more money per FPP also.Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU
You are correct those cash bonuses for $50 are a ripoff.Originally Posted by AshThePro
Yeah, but from the looks of it, exchanging the FPP's for cash isn't really worth it is it? I mean you have to exchange an enormous amount for like $50.....
I average $100 T$ for every 5,000FPPs playing the 280FPP Hyper Turbo Sattys to the $11 Quarter Million
Even the special June Bonuses arent more than what I make playing the 280FPP Sattys.
And I can play through 5,000FPPs in about 20 minutes so it def doesnt hurt my $/hr
I kinda was guessing before without calculations, so you'd have to have a higher $/h than I originally thought. -
Posts: 74
Joined: Nov 07Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 2:36am) in reply to Phi
Ah, I think I've got some research to do before I do this....
Lets just assume that I have an ROI of 17% at the micros ($1-$3) over 300 games. Also, cashing in 33% of them, All on fulltilt. I can 6-12 table and play 20 hours a week. Is this worth my time and effort?
Can you sustain that up to the $20 and $30 buy ins?
Can I hit SuperNova by December? Does it reset for the next year if I don't hit it by December?
Maybe I should just contact stars.... -
Posts: 74
Joined: Nov 07Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 2:38am) in reply to AshThePro
BTW thanks for the responses! I really appreciate it! Usually someone starts flaming someone else by now.....
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If you don't hit 100K VPPs when the year ends you will have to start over the next year.
Originally Posted by AshThePro
Ah, I think I've got some research to do before I do this....
Lets just assume that I have an ROI of 17% at the micros ($1-$3) over 300 games. Also, cashing in 33% of them, All on fulltilt. I can 6-12 table and play 20 hours a week. Is this worth my time and effort?
Can you sustain that up to the $20 and $30 buy ins?
Can I hit SuperNova by December? Does it reset for the next year if I don't hit it by December?
Maybe I should just contact stars.... -
Posts: 967
Joined: Dec 08Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 4:35am) in reply to telks
Considering you have to pay what, like 20k in rake to get supernova (5 fpp per $1 right?), and you can get 27% rakeback on ftp doing absolutely nothing I think ftp would be the way to go. If you are playing $1-3 games I think the rake is higher on ftp though.. gl in whatever you choose.
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Posts: 504
Joined: May 06Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 9:24am) in reply to AshThePro
You will not likely even hit supernova if you are just getting started with that bankroll. If you get rakeback on FTP you are better off grinding there. Based on my experience, there are weaker players at the lower levels on FTP than on stars also so you will have a higher ROI.
I don't think grinding FPP satties should be factoring into rakeback calculations. It may be profitable but really has nothing to do with rakeback as you are not paying rake in them and you are only getting back what you earn by playing poker. -
Posts: 1,564
Joined: Jun 07Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 9:53am) in reply to AshThePro
With the information you've given, i would stick with FT and get the rakeback. I think it would be rediculously hard to get supernova just no starting halfway thru the year and playing lower stakes. Maybe if all you did was multi table the 20 and 30s, but it sounds like that would be putting about a 1/3 of your bankroll on the line for the session. One round of running bad and that would tilt the fck out of me
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Posts: 465
Joined: Feb 09Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 9:54am) in reply to Randomizer
here's a plan
as you prob won't reach supernova by december, grind on FT till december and then if you've proven urself, making decent money and moving up or whatever, then go for suprenova in 2010?
get the best of both worlds that way -
Posts: 306
Joined: Aug 08Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 10:21am) in reply to d7o1d1s0
i can't see any concievable way that you will hit hit supernova in those games unless you put in a ridiculous amount of voulme. I hit SN in April, and i was playing 18-20 tables mainly 100nl, some 200 (6max) mixed in. I think i played like 250K hands.
pokerstars vip program is really awesome, and WAY better than any rakeback deal you can get, but u have to put in sick volume. The cash players who put in quite a bit of volume, play a ton of tables are the people they were thinking of when they designed the program. -
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 09Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 10:41am) in reply to AshThePro
Without a doubt you are better off playing on Full Tilt. You dont have a shot at making supernova and most likely wouldnt even hit platinum playing at those levels 20 hrs a week. Once you build up a roll on FTP then I would switch over to stars next year...
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Agree with just about all of this. Honestly though, getting 27% rakeback on FTP off the bat is sick and stars isn't going to be able to beat that by much if any at all... I think I heard at elite it comes out to about 29%... I can't verify that for sure though.
Originally Posted by Randomizer
You will not likely even hit supernova if you are just getting started with that bankroll. If you get <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> on FTP you are better off grinding there. Based on my experience, there are weaker players at the lower levels on FTP than on stars also so you will have a higher ROI.
I don't think grinding FPP satties should be factoring into <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> calculations. It may be profitable but really has nothing to do with rakeback as you are not paying rake in them and you are only getting back what you earn by playing poker.
FWIW I am not dumping on stars, I love the FPP system and it is where I do most of my day to day grinding. -
Posts: 622
Joined: Nov 07Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 12:29pm) in reply to Phi
can you explain this? are you counting freeroll buyins? or just the bonuses you buy? cause i cant get past the math. i know that a sn hitting 70k vpps a month is equal to a player on ft getting 27% rb.Originally Posted by PhiAlphaMTSU
I am a platinum star and I average 25% <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</A> on pokerstars. So I would definitely say Supernova > FTP 27% rakeback.
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not to mention one thing that people don't talk about much is how much play u are getting for your rake.... examples...........
6 and 9 person sng
stars- $12 +$1 23 +2
FTP - $10 +$1 20+2
it goes like this in many different things for even higher stakes so you are getting a bit more out of stars so u need to consider that also. -
Posts: 99
Joined: Mar 08Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 1:43pm) in reply to pharreal87
For a true sng grinder stars beats FTP hands down.
to calculate rakeback is pretty easy for a sng player.
every 1$ rake u get 5vpp
supernova *3.5 = 17.5 FPP
they go at 1.6c a point that come to 28cent a dollar
so thats 28% rakeback as a supernova, not included the milestonebonuses and other freerolls etc.
keep in mind this is once u reached supernova status, as a starter im not sure whether u can top 27% from FTP. -
Posts: 622
Joined: Nov 07Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 9:28pm) in reply to Casado
now i am not at most of your levals. but you have to do over 70k vpp per month to get 1 4k bonus per month 48k a year. $14k per month in rake. same player on tilt gets 3780 cash paid every friday. but with iron man the player will get to play a few 75 or 26 dollar turny a month for free and not take a mgr hit. also 2 iron man bonus per year about 1200. i dont see how you pass tilt unless you are elite.Originally Posted by Casado
For a true sng grinder stars beats FTP hands down.
to calculate <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</A> is pretty easy for a sng player.
every 1$ rake u get 5vpp
supernova *3.5 = 17.5 FPP
they go at 1.6c a point that come to 28cent a dollar
so thats 28% <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</A> as a supernova, not included the milestonebonuses and other freerolls etc.
keep in mind this is once u reached supernova status, as a starter im not sure whether u can top 27% from FTP.
i am not trying to argue i am just trying to figure out the hidden math. -
Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 05Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 9:43pm) in reply to leoslayer
<TABLE cellSpacing=10 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>VIP Level</TD><TD align=middle>RB Equivalent %</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Bronze Star</TD><TD align=middle>8%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Silver Star</TD><TD align=middle>12%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Gold Star</TD><TD align=middle>16%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Platinum Star</TD><TD align=middle>20%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Supernova</TD><TD align=middle>28%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>SN, 200k+ VPP</TD><TD align=middle>~31%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>SN, 300k+ VPP</TD><TD align=middle>~34%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>SN, 400k+ VPP</TD><TD align=middle>~36%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>SN, 500k+ VPP</TD><TD align=middle>~39%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>SN, 600k+ VPP</TD><TD align=middle>~41%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>SN, 800k+ VPP</TD><TD align=middle>~43%</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Supernova Elite</TD><TD align=middle>~57</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 05Jun 28th, 2009 (6/28/2009 9:46pm) in reply to BKCloutier
If you are a tourney player their are weekend tourneys that are an added value of about $2500 a year on pokerstars also. I would not play at stars until next year unless you can get to supernova this year which does not seem likely. It seems supernova and the fulltilt 27% with iron man bonus works out to be about the same. Once you hit 200k for the year at riverstars then its a better deal than fulltilt.
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Posts: 12
Joined: Aug 07Jun 29th, 2009 (6/29/2009 2:35pm) in reply to BKCloutier
I find myself in the same quandary... I'm a lower stakes grinder, and 9-table 50NL full ring games for a couple hours a day (2k hands on avg). I'm close to achieving Platinum status on PStars in just a couple weeks of play. I doubt I'll play enough to achieve SN b/c I only play $50 full ring, let alone SNE in the near future. I love FT, but I already have a non-rakeback account (I have sent numerous emails to cust support trying to sign up for RB but with no success). Same with UltimateBet and Carbon Poker. I don't feel like I'm getting the RB that is available out there, I have a roll of around $1k and would like to play with it on a site that offers 27%+ RB, does anyone have any other site recommendations?
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Posts: 5,808
Joined: Feb 07Jun 29th, 2009 (6/29/2009 3:07pm) in reply to AshThePro
keep in mind ftp also has a store and the iron man promotion. make iron man every month and thats $1200 a year + the ftps and medals. a % comes out of rakeback, but it's still extra money back.
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Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 05Jun 29th, 2009 (6/29/2009 4:06pm) in reply to uhwhatsthatdeal
Cake poker 33% RB and lots of bonus offers.
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Posts: 74
Joined: Nov 07Jun 30th, 2009 (6/30/2009 12:26am) in reply to AshThePro
Thanks for all the info!
I understand I have to start all over again on stars at the start of the year.
BUT, it is month to month, so when I hit platinum status I will have the multipliers in place to hit supernova much faster.
This is also assuming I move up which is of course a goal.
I think I'm going to go with stars. I'm also on Cake but their SNG's suck and they don't support Holdem Manager and that is a must for helping my game.
Anyways, thanks again all. GG
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