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I hear people say all the time that if you get Supernova you're getting more "rakeback" than you would from FTPs 27%. I don't see how. After all the calculations I've looked at, its less. Maybe someone can break it down for me?
It would take me 4 months to get Supernova this year starting from scratch which I can do easily. But I'm thinking of going back to my FTP name because of the 27% Rakeback. I play cash (100nl). Can someone help me understand how I would make more as a Supernova than playing on FTP... -
There was a thread last week about this ima try and find it but you can't just look at FPP bonuses look at all the freerolls and hotel upgrades etc.... you are getting being a supernova not to mention FTP's point system sucks big floppy donkey sausage
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That doesn't really help me. It doesn't explain how being Supernova is better than having RB.
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My understanding is that unless you're Supernova, you can't get anywhere close to the 27% that you get back on Full Tilt. I believe Supernova is equivalent to about 28% for tourney players and Supernova Elite is equivalent to about 40%. There are a lot of posts detailing this stuff in the archives.
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The math itself is pretty simple.
Given: supernova multiplier = 3.5x, fpp is worth $.016, and $1 of rake = 5 VPPs
for each $1 of rake, you get 5 VPP's multiplied by 3.5, or 17.5 FPP
17.5 FPP * .016 dollars/FPP = $.28, or 28% rakeback
that doesn't include milestone bonuses, VIP freerolls, etc
edit: again, we've been over the fact that each site has its pros and its cons. stars FPP's are less liquidable than rakeback. Full Tilt has less traffic. Stars has more regs per table. Full Tilt's support is pretty awful. etc etc etc, to be honest I would play on both if FTP gave me RB -
The assumption that stars pays 28% for SuperNova assumes that you are ONLY clearing stuff on the VIP store that is worth $0.016
NOT everything in the store is
The items that are for sure are the $1,000 Onecall.com Giftcard and the $4,000 Bonus...
if you are cashing off clothes or smaller bonuses your rakeback won't be as high...
stars is essentially hoping you are impatient and cash off the stuff that isn't worth as mch
i went through the whole VIP store with any items i found interesting or thought might be decent deals and only a few things where worth "more" than the two i mentioned
what you need to do to find out what an item is worth is this:
Market Value of the item in $$$$
Total FPP Cost
then dividing the MV by the FPP
=MV/FPP
This will tell you the $ per FPP ... if you find an item that is woth more than $0.016 then you should get that instead of the bonus -
<table dir="ltr" width="444" border="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Product
</td><td width="21%" height="16">Market Value
</td><td width="22%" height="16">FPP Required
</td><td width="19%" height="16">Value / FPP
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Electronics
</td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Nintendo Wii
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$249.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">30,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.00833
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">PS3
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$399.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">44,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.00909
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Canon Powershot SD890IS
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$249.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">25,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01000
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Samsung Blu Ray
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$249.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">23,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01087
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Samsung 24" Monitor
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$499.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">45,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01111
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">8 GB Nano
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$149.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">13,500
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01111
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Samsung 30" Monitor
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$1,249.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">105,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01190
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">MacBook AIR
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$1,799.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">150,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01200
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">16 GB Nano
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$199.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">16,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01250
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">20" Samsung Monitor
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$299.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">22,500
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01333
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">22" Samsung Monitor
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$349.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">26,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01346
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Bose IPOD Dock
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$399.99
</td><td width="22%" height="16">20,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.02000
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Gift Cards
</td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$150 Exxon Mobile Card
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$150.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">12,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01250
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$200 Onecall.com
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$200.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">13,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01538
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$1000 Onecall.com
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$1,000.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">62,500
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01600
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Cash Bonuses
</td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$50 Bonus
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$50.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">5,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01000
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$285 Bonus
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$285.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">25,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01140
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$650 Bonus
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$650.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">50,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01300
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$1500 Bonus
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$1,500.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">100,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01500
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$4000 Bonus
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$4,000.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">250,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01600
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16"></td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">Tournament Tickets
</td><td width="21%" height="16"></td><td width="22%" height="16"></td><td width="19%" height="16"></td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$215 Sunday Mil
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$215.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">13,500
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01593
</td></tr><tr><td width="39%" height="16">$530 Sunday Mil
</td><td width="21%" height="16">$530.00
</td><td width="22%" height="16">33,000
</td><td width="19%" height="16">$0.01606
</td></tr></tbody></table>
there you go.... that is essentially my excel sheet
one thing to keep in mind is the tournament tickets require you to actually play the tournament... can't cash it out and then unregister it to keep the $T -
Supernova is like minimum 28% or something and increases the more you play. If you can easily get 100k vpps in 4 months you should get at least one, maybe 2 milestone bonuses for the year assuming you keep playing after you achieve supernova. Elite is like 55% minimum, probably 65% on average and can be worth >80% to some people.
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this is wrong...
Originally Posted by stevie444
Supernova is like minimum 28% or something and increases the more you play. If you can easily get 100k vpps in 4 months you should get at least one, maybe 2 milestone bonuses for the year assuming you keep playing after you achieve supernova. Elite is like 55% minimum, probably 65% on average and can be worth >80% to some people.
it is only 28% if you get items that are worth $0.016
example:
$52 DoN SNG on stars
10 Base FPP
if you are SN you get 3.5x the points, or 35
35 x $0.016 = $0.56
$0.56/$2= 28%
if you buy items worth less then 0.016 then you get less than 28%
Elite is only worth 40%
the only variable that changes for SNE or any level for that matter is the amount of bonus you get
so SNE for the example above is
10 x 5 = 50
50 x 0.016 = $0.80
0.80/2= 40% -
pokerstars all you have to do is have an account... there is no special rakeback program
FTP idk much about except i believe if you already have an account with no rakeback you are out of luck -
Thanks for the quick response.
Originally Posted by WiserPenny
pokerstars all you have to do is have an account... there is no special <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> program
FTP idk much about except i believe if you already have an account with no <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> you are out of luck -
Thats strange cos i could have sworn last year i also got 78k of milestone bonuses, free pca and monte carlo packages complete with room upgrades to balla suites, a wcoop main event ticket and entry to numerus freerolls and promotional tournaments with money/tournament packages added to the prizepool by stars.
Originally Posted by WiserPenny
Elite is only worth 40%
the only variable that changes for SNE or any level for that matter is the amount of bonus you get
I was assuming when i said 28% that most people would buy the bonuses and then purchase things they wanted for themselves instead of spending more to buy it in the fpp store. Obviously if you use your fpps to buy into fpp sats and sit out the value of supernova is a lot less but I meant minimum 28% for people who are looking to maximize their rakeback. My point that supernova can be worth more than that if you play enough to reach some of the milestone bonuses.
Oh and the porsche is 2c/fpp so if u make elite and spend all ur points on porsches ur rakeback will be pretty huge =P -
stevie,
when you do the concierge package, what rate do they charge (in terms of value per fpp)? -
When you get to Supernova, you'll have earned hundreds of thousands of FPP. Why would you do anything but concierge it? I don't think anyone has 6,000 pokerstars monkeys in their room.
Originally Posted by WiserPenny
The assumption that stars pays 28% for SuperNova assumes that you are ONLY clearing stuff on the VIP store that is worth $0.016
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Ok I think I'm going to stick with stars. I will earn enough FPPs weekly to buy into the sunday milli every week so freerolling the sunday mill every week makes it worth it alone :) :). haha I'm not sure I'll do that every week but you know. I really don't see myself making over 300k VPP this year though so SNE is out of the question :(
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yes supernova can be worth more if you count the milestone bonuses... i didn't consider them as part of the "rakeback" in my equation... that would involve making a step and wouldn't help in which items are "best value" in the VIP club... but good point
Originally Posted by stevie444
. My point that supernova can be worth more than that if you play enough to reach some of the milestone bonuses.
Oh and the porsche is 2c/fpp so if u make elite and spend all ur points on porsches ur <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> will be pretty huge =P
note though that it is only of value for mid-high level SNs... if you are barely scraping 100k VPP you won't see that additional rakeback... it won't come into play until 200k VPP
lol i didn't bother to look up the Porshe ... maybe i should take it into consideration haha -
because i'm sure that the majority of people do the $4k discount... its more convenient and you get cash in your pocket... unless i can just call up the concierge service and say... bring $4k in cash to my front door... i'll be honest i've never used it so i don't know how it really works...
Originally Posted by leftygrove
When you get to Supernova, you'll have earned hundreds of thousands of FPP. Why would you do anything but concierge it? I don't think anyone has 6,000 pokerstars monkeys in their room.Originally Posted by WiserPenny
The assumption that stars pays 28% for SuperNova assumes that you are ONLY clearing stuff on the VIP store that is worth $0.016
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Just saw a link to this site posted on 2+2. Its not finished but its pretty good. http://www.fpppro.com/rakebackhome.php
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I did some calculations when I was playing 78$ 6 man SNGs with 6$ rake to see what the rake back would be, the first time you achieve platinum or SN/SNE there is some lag time to accumulate FPPs if you don't already have loads of FPP sitting around. So the rakeback is less first time in...
I think getting 27% right off the bat is a better deal, but there is more to consider as everyone has pointed out....I'd go with whatever site is your comfort zone / run goot on....
Just look at the bold parts, you prob won't follow the other parts, I did it for myself, not others....
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="1216"><col span="5" width="64"> <col width="64"> <col span="13" width="64"> <tbody><tr height="25"><td align="right" height="25" width="64">650
</td><td width="64">Rake</td><td width="64">VPP</td><td width="64">FPP</td><td width="64">RB FPP</td><td width="64">T#s</td><td width="64">rake paid</td><td width="64">clear VIP</td><td width="64">T#s</td><td width="64">Rake</td><td width="64">650 bonus</td><td width="64">FPPs gain</td><td width="64">To go</td><td width="64">rake paid</td><td width="64">clear</td><td width="64">T#s</td><td width="64">Rake</td><td width="64">650 bonus</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">Platinum</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>75</td><td align="right">50000</td><td align="right">667</td><td align="right">4000</td><td align="right">4550</td><td align="right">152</td><td align="right">910</td><td align="right">13%</td><td>11375</td><td align="right">38625</td><td align="right">515</td><td align="right">3090</td><td align="right">4550</td><td align="right">152</td><td align="right">910</td><td align="right">16%</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">SN</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>105</td><td align="right">50000</td><td align="right">476</td><td align="right">2857</td><td align="right">4550</td><td align="right">152</td><td align="right">910</td><td align="right">17%</td><td>15925</td><td align="right">34075</td><td align="right">325</td><td align="right">1947</td><td align="right">4550</td><td align="right">152</td><td align="right">910</td><td align="right">23%</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">SNE</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>150</td><td align="right">50000</td><td align="right">333</td><td align="right">2000</td><td align="right">4550</td><td align="right">152</td><td align="right">910</td><td align="right">22%</td><td>22750</td><td align="right">27250</td><td align="right">182</td><td align="right">1090</td><td align="right">4550</td><td align="right">152</td><td align="right">910</td><td align="right">33%</td></tr><tr height="25"><td align="right" height="25">1500
</td><td>Rake</td><td>VPP</td><td>FPP</td><td>RB FPP</td><td>T#s</td><td>rake paid</td><td>clear VIP</td><td>T#s</td><td>Rake</td><td>1500 bonus</td><td>FPPs gain</td><td>To go</td><td>rake paid</td><td>clear</td><td>T#s</td><td>Rake</td><td>1500 bonus</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">SN</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>105</td><td align="right">100000</td><td align="right">952</td><td align="right">5714</td><td align="right">10500</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">2100</td><td align="right">19%</td><td>36750</td><td align="right">63250</td><td align="right">602</td><td align="right">3614</td><td align="right">10500</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">2100</td><td align="right">26%</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">SNE</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>150</td><td align="right">100000</td><td align="right">667</td><td align="right">4000</td><td align="right">10500</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">2100</td><td align="right">25%</td><td>52500</td><td align="right">47500</td><td align="right">317</td><td align="right">1900</td><td align="right">10500</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">2100</td><td align="right">38%</td></tr><tr height="25"><td align="right" height="25">4000</td><td>Rake</td><td>VPP</td><td>FPP</td><td>RB FPP</td><td>T#s</td><td>rake paid</td><td>clear VIP</td><td>T#s</td><td>Rake</td><td>4K bonus</td><td>FPPs gain</td><td>To go</td><td>rake paid</td><td>clear</td><td>T#s</td><td>Rake</td><td>4K bonus</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">SN</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>105</td><td align="right">250000</td><td align="right">2381</td><td align="right">14286</td><td align="right">28000</td><td align="right">933</td><td align="right">5600</td><td align="right">20%</td><td>98000</td><td align="right">152000</td><td align="right">1448</td><td align="right">8686</td><td align="right">28000</td><td align="right">933</td><td align="right">5600</td><td align="right">28%</td></tr><tr height="20"><td height="20">SNE</td><td>6</td><td>30</td><td>150</td><td align="right">250000</td><td align="right">1667</td><td align="right">10000</td><td align="right">28000</td><td align="right">933</td><td align="right">5600</td><td align="right">26%</td><td>140000</td><td align="right">110000</td><td align="right">733</td><td align="right">4400</td><td align="right">28000</td><td align="right">933</td><td align="right">5600</td><td align="right">40%</td></tr></tbody></table> -
does the auto-hyperlinking of the word "r@keback" to P5s r@keback every time you write it tilt the crap out of anyone else?
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Thats a good site. The game cash game calculator isn't working :(. That's what I want to know lol
Originally Posted by stevie444
Just saw a link to this site posted on 2+2. Its not finished but its pretty good. http://www.fpppro.com/rakebackhome.php
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Ok ok but please OP you have to consider the freerolls they offer every week with I believe a 75k prizepool and other special bonuses such as room upgrades,being able to direct buy into WSOP or EPT events etc.. stars wins hands down.
Although if you're results oriented you will prolly wanna see x amount extra in your acct every month -
you are also forgetting the fact that you cant 24-table on full tilt...kills my bonus return....stars pwns imo
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so while at work today i did some quick calculations... and you are without a doubt right Stevie... even as a standard SN you can earn up ... i think it was 64% rakeback once you get up to the 8k milestone
Originally Posted by WiserPenny
yes supernova can be worth more if you count the milestone bonuses... i didn't consider them as part of the "<a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a>" in my equation... that would involve making a step and wouldn't help in which items are "best value" in the VIP club... but good pointOriginally Posted by stevie444
. My point that supernova can be worth more than that if you play enough to reach some of the milestone bonuses.
Oh and the porsche is 2c/fpp so if u make elite and spend all ur points on porsches ur <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a> will be pretty huge =P
note though that it is only of value for mid-high level SNs... if you are barely scraping 100k VPP you won't see that additional <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</a>... it won't come into play until 200k VPP
lol i didn't bother to look up the Porshe ... maybe i should take it into consideration haha
if you are SNE you get over 70.. closer to 80... i might post the excel i did later
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