Originally Posted by gutshtallin

No reads on limper and blackfourz hadnt gotten out of line vs me at all yet. We are 1 and 2 in chips at this point.

pokerstars Game #41276142147: Tournament #302010852, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1250/2500) - 2010/03/16 23:12:40 ET
Table '302010852 48' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: gutshtallin (239663 in chips)
Seat 2: BlackFourz (356298 in chips)
Seat 4: casawag (83593 in chips)
Seat 5: Unicum next (100584 in chips)
Seat 6: popp6161 (135915 in chips)
gutshtallin: posts the ante 250
BlackFourz: posts the ante 250
casawag: posts the ante 250
Unicum next: posts the ante 250
popp6161: posts the ante 250
gutshtallin: posts small blind 1250
BlackFourz: posts big blind 2500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gutshtallin [3h Ac]
casawag: calls 2500
Unicum next: folds
popp6161: folds
gutshtallin: calls 1250
BlackFourz: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 4h Ah]
gutshtallin: checks
BlackFourz: checks
casawag: bets 10000
gutshtallin: raises 12500 to 22500
BlackFourz: raises 27550 to 50050
casawag: folds
???????

I obv raise to get casawag allin and then with a cold bet from blackfourz comes out of nowhere. What type of range and equity does my hand have? Do you flat, fold or shove?
I felt blackfourz is almost never bluffing here, his range is like combo fdraws like k2hh 56hh or 44 A4 A3 or 25. I guess it could possibly be just Kxhh

WUG thoughts

Blackfourz range seems pretty gross here. Prob a pretty massive draw or trying to play a super-under-repped A but I'm not really too sure if that's his style. He could easily have flopped bottom 2 in the bb but once again I have no clue how he'd ever play that hand in this spot. Super gross tho :/ I prob get it in and pray a h doesn't come off.

 

Originally Posted by TiltinShoes

Looks to me like it is either a combo draw or 52. Don't see it being really anything else here.

Edit: I suppose there is a small percentage of the time this is air... a very small percentage.

Agree w/ combo draw but you don't think 34 ever hits him here? I kinda doubt he'd be able to slow play that hand with an A on the board effectively all that often esp with the other draws out there.

 

Originally Posted by Appst08

pretty absurd spot is right.....wow i mean idk how u fold against blackfourz, but how can you stack off also

This

 

Originally Posted by yellowhat

I'd fold, cause you're getting called by something that has you crushed (a4/44/25/33) or flipping vs a gutshot flush draw, and he's folding if he has 34. Also his raise size is scary but makes it mroe possible he's bluffing, maybe with something like a pair and a gutshot that has equity if the first guy decides to stick it in but that he has to fold vs you. I doubt he's bluffing enough of the time there to make it a profitable shove.

Pretty much agree entirely

I feel like this is one of those fold but dont tell anybody folds. I mean, his value range to beat ours is so narrow but it seems like such an unlikely spot for him to bluff giving he has nothing invested and not much for reads about the limper and our sb flat.

He never has air, he always has a hand that makes you wince when you see all his outs...

^ im voted fold but i find myself agreeing with the Gboro, damn him. If its certain that the guy isnt gonna carry on if the turn is a blank, which seems fair :P

Ok maybe an amatuer move but you can certainly find out where you are in this hand it may cost you half your stack but you would still be 50+bb deep at 1250/2500...why not 5 bet to like 108k and if he shoves let it go....you would then be positive of where you stand and will either get a fold or a shove there will be no flatting at this point...just my thoughts GLITZ

 

Originally Posted by GlitznGlamor

Ok maybe an amatuer move but you can certainly find out where you are in this hand it may cost you half your stack but you would still be 50+bb deep at 1250/2500...why not 5 bet to like 108k and if he shoves let it go....you would then be positive of where you stand and will either get a fold or a shove there will be no flatting at this point...just my thoughts GLITZ

Doing this would be the same as 5 betting complete air. If u decide to 5bet these stacks u better be 5bet/calling

 

Originally Posted by GlitznGlamor

but....WHO REALLY CARES IF ITS AIR OR NOT IF your folding to a shove no matter the circumstance....I dont know I dont think whether it looks like air or not at that point

Cuz your turning a big hand like this into a bluff when u 5bet/fold, not to mention how horrible it be to bet/fold away half your stack.

to pretty much any one who is saying flat, what cards come on the turn that your comfortable playing back at blackfours with? if its a heart how do you play it? I get the no idea where I'm at flat but there doesn't seem to be a super amount of cards that really help you, seems he's showing extreme strength and what new info do you have on the turn? being oop if you check, which im assuming you have to, he can check behind and see both cards free so really by flatting your going to have to face many scare cards twice no?

genuine question if anyone has the time to answer. thanks!