Adam u are ten times the player i am but i personally would lead this flop to look weak with the intention of it being in on turn or flop if needed

Do we really want to stack off 40bb to this guy with no real information? If we shove over his bet, we'd really only get better hands to call wouldn't we? AA, JJ, KJ, KK all beat us right now and KQ will pay us off until river where he'd likely check behind. But def c/c flop unless you have some read he is passive.

so check calling all the way?????

what if he tosses out a massive turn bet just muck ????

leading then re-raising a horrendous line i guess???

shows why im still a donk

So lets say he bets 1800 into the pot of 3000ish or whatever...you gonna raise to 4k and when he shoves are you folding the other 7K? Boom 10bb. We beat one hand that he reshoves with, including combo draws of AQs we are flipping with. Dunno just more insight thrown into the mix

i know beef but in postion whislt being the agressor his range is so wide no????

he would often bet or raise with any holding not just the 4 that have u crushed

I think we could make another poll on re-raising preflop in this spot.

Since Charder is prolly the best person responding to this post what's ur line on blank rag? What about spade? paired J? A , Q, or T?

What other hands do you flat preflop with in this position? Personally I think your hand is fairly transparent. I mean maybe you flat 22-TT (maybe even JJ though I think a raise is better) but you're definitely r/r pre with QQ+. Aside from pairs, what are you realistically flatting here? AK, AQ, KQs?? I guess since its pretty deep you may flat a hand like 67s-9Ts, but OOP against two opponents its probably more generally a fold.

I think leading the flop screams you hit something, whether its a set or TPTK (given your range), especially against two opponents. I like a check for pot control to protect against when he has KK/JJ. Also you get to see both opponents act before you make a decision. If the limper bets and the Villain r/r you can fold easily. If the limper bets and villain flats it's a bit trickier, but TBH I'm probably jamming there. If its checked to the villain a call from you again controls the pot and gives you more info about the limper based on what he does.

On the turn if its HU I think the best line is to lead a blank turn. If he r/r I honestly think its a fold almost 99% of the time. A scare card I check/call turn and prob river as well. This spot happens often and its just super tricky to get it right though.

Crap misread it again...god I suck at this post...but if you lead, how much are you leading? Are we doing this to induce a raise from the PFR so we can c/r with dead money from the limper? Also, how many ppl think the PFL would raise with the QTs or set hand here if we led first?

I lead out strong there, if i get called and the turn is a blank, i fire again, if i get raised however i consider throwing it away.

im c/c cause raising doesnt do much for us, unless he sucks and wants to go broke with KQ. Leading is ok against certain opponents. Id c/c almost all turns, maybe lead a K or something. Ya it makes u make tough decisions, but its by far the most EV+ play. Your objective is to make the most EV+ play, not that one that makes it easiest for you to play.

I like to plan to check this flop, evaluate the action. The limper to me to limp cold-call screams a pair of some sort like 60-70% of time, so 77 is in his range. If original raiser checks behind, I say I put him on a jack, air, or a draw to be deceptive, maybe a set, but board how to much texture not to bet it. I think with you checking calling the flop will allow you insight into the mp players hand, which could be a draw or a set if they flat call its a draw I feel and if they reraise its a set more than likely. I like to see the cbet size of the original raiser to see if he is trying to build the pot or trying to price draws out. You have about 17k after the preflop call, so you can have anywhere from 13.5 to 14.5k left on the turn, and I think you have to plan on it being all in by the river.

The raiser could have AQss, QTss,QTo,89ss, KJ, KQ,KT,QJ, JT, AA,KK,JJ,QQ,AK. With KJ,AK, AA,KK, and JJ less likely with the cards out. If you check call, you might get a bet out of KQ,KT, and AK on the turn were your ahead or chopping. AA,KJ,KK,JJ your behind that will bet the turn, with the draws out there. QQ & TT I think gives up after the cbet or might even check behind, as well at QJ or JT. I feel all draws will bet the flop to receive a free card on the turn if they miss 4th street. So theres 5 or 6 made hands that you beat, but might only get a bet from 2 you beat and the 3rd you chop. There are a few drawing hands you beat or combo draws that are flipping against.

I actually might check fold this and wait for a better spot, I don't feel comfortable getting it in slowly without defining villans range. You could try to take the pot down immediately with a c.raise on the flop, but could be reshoved on by combo draws and hands that beat you, and lose value from the few hands you beat. After you that being said its a very Sticky Situation, and I made my head hurt with my bad analysis.

 

Originally Posted by A_Junglen

I think we could make another poll on re-raising preflop in this spot.

Im reraising preflop all day

I think the most +ev play is to first re raise pre imo, but as played i c/r flop. I like what nowapowa said, and if I'm in villains spot I don't need much to re raise that lead b/c it looks weak, not AK, and if that's the line you take it is very exploitable I think.

It's a sick spot b/c I'll admit c/ring could be bad because after you stack that many chips in the re raise, you could commit urself to mikal nearly drawing dead, or lose a lot more chips than you would if you lead/ get re raised. But like I said, not only AA/KK/JJ are re raising you there.... would be sick if villain does have AQss or something and shoves in on u, u have to fold.... also very bad. Who knows this hand has me thinkin, would like to see what happened... and I'm such a spew monkey this could be interesting

I lead for about 2600-2800 here, unless the raiser will always cont bet, then I check raise.