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Possible Staking? Need Help

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  1. SantanaBandana SantanaBandana is offline

    Pennington, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 683
    Joined: Mar 07

    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 8:43pm)

    Ok, I am a college student who has been grinding for the majority of two years now. I have never had a solid bank roll and I have been forced to play in smaller $1-$2 tournaments. However, I have recently induced a proposition to my father and he has shown possible interest in staking me online. My request would be $3000 and with that i would play the 24+2 mtts on FTP, and this would follow Fox's 'Protected' bankroll strategy. Using officialpokerrankings.com, one can observe that my roi is poor but my ITM is floating at 23% which is appropriate for MTT play and with a constant buy-in and a solid bankroll I believe I would be a profitable player at this level. I ask you, the informed pocketfives community, whether or not you believe this is a good plan why/why not and how, if you think it is wise, should I approach my father to show him that he is not throwing 3k away at a simple hobby. I really love the game of poker and I believe I have a strong understanding of what it takes to be a winning player, i just need the resources.
  2. DexterCain DexterCain is offline

    Posts: 13,456
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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 8:45pm) in reply to SantanaBandana

    I'm not knowledgable enough to answer any of your questins. But ITM % is a really pointless stat to worry about.
  3. sandler1860 sandler1860 is online now

    Dayton, OH
    United States

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 8:47pm) in reply to SantanaBandana

    1. Who gives a shit about ITM %? Final tables and top 3 is what counts.

    2. Why not let your dad get you a subscription to PXF or CR? I guarantee it will make you a better player and when your pops sees how much effort youre putting into getting better, he'll have no problem fronting you the cash.
     
  4. Mkind16 Mkind16 is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 5,382
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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 8:53pm) in reply to sandler1860

    Higher itm% = higher roi% just by default, so that's not necessarily true.
    1
  5. Frank1The1Tank Frank1The1Tank is offline

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    Joined: Apr 07

    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 9:00pm) in reply to SantanaBandana

    Here's a few things to help you out, and fwiw I am a staked player as well.

    1. ITM is meaningless as others said. Pretty much all the top players have an ITM% of something like 15%. The idea in MTT's is not to cash, but rather to take it down. Play to win always and not to cash, and your overall ROI will generally be better.
    2. You're lucky to have a father who supports your play, and is willing to stake you to play, most parents are not like that.
    3. You seem to have little to no experience what so ever in higher buyin MTT's, so I would grind out lower stakes ones first and put up some results and gradually move up. Someone could win the lottery tomorrow and have like a $2M bankroll to play poker, but that doesn't mean they should now play 100/200 NL or 200/400 NL just because their bankroll supports it, because they may not be winning players at it.
    4. No matter what you do, make sure you're not risking any feelings by taking this stake. If you lose it all and go busto, you don't want your dad to be pissed at you about it. At the same time, give him his fair share if you do happen to make money (which is typically 50/50 + stakeback).
    5. Just to add and this is my own opinion, I would never stake you just by the things you have said here. So in your question about whether or not it would be wise, sure it would be wise for you, but a very bad investment by your dad, at least at this time as you do not appear to have the skills to beat this game.
     
  6. DexterCain DexterCain is offline

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 9:02pm) in reply to Mkind16

    but if by his own admission his ROI is poor, ITM is a pretty pointless stat to be concerning himself with.
  7. Hellion Hellion is offline

    London
    United Kingdom

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 9:20pm) in reply to Frank1The1Tank

    Grind out smaller buyin tournies and build your own bankroll, if you're good enough and can put in enough volume, you should be able to afford higher buyins pretty quickly. Plus you will build a record of winning mtt play to show anyone willing to stake you in the future. Although from my understanding it's not your results that attract stakers, it's your level of play, so they may want to look at some of your hand histories too. By the way, make sure your dad knows about the nature of varience in poker, and that it's very possible to loose the whole $3000 playing mtt's, even if you are a top player!
  8. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 9:28pm) in reply to Mkind16

    o rly mkind? http://www.bluffmagazine.com/thepoke...er-profile.asp
    91 12
  9. skeeze666 skeeze666 is offline

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 10:38pm) in reply to SantanaBandana

    I strongly suggest you never get staked by family. Just my two cents.
  10. bassmaster bassmaster is offline SCAMMER - DO NOT TRADE

    Thailand

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 10:44pm) in reply to SantanaBandana

    The $26 mtts on FTP are great but there are a few other tournies with great value that are very beatable with good payouts accross all the sites. If your dad is willing to gamble his $3000 my suggestion is put $1500 on pokerstars and $1500 on FTP then play these tournies if you are able to multi table 4+ games at a time.

    Site
    FTP buy in
    Midnight Madness $11

    Early Double A & B $12 (both) Maybe the $12DD also
    Any $1 or $3 rebuys maybe the $5 rebuys
    and then play the $1 ,$6 and $8 token satellites tournies and sit n goes when bored and if you win tokens then play the 24 and 28K guaruntees

    Pokerstars
    20K guar $11
    25K and 30K $3 + rebuys
    5K g $5
    4.40 180 mans
    $1-6 sattys to sunday hundred grand and sunday million and other tournies
  11. LetsHustle LetsHustle is offline

    Monmouth Junction, NJ
    United States

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 11:15pm) in reply to SantanaBandana

    heres a tip, if you have never built a bankroll to 3k on your own. I wouldn't go losing your fathers money.
  12. crapshot1 crapshot1 is offline

    Reigate
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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 11:19pm) in reply to LetsHustle

    If the $24 tournies on FTP treat you like they have me so far you will experience huge variance and could easily lose your 3k before final tabling.
     
  13. sexyprussia sexyprussia is offline

    Dyer, IN
    United States

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 11:30pm) in reply to crapshot1

    Wow, if your dad is willing to stack you, maybe consider doing something else besides poker? I mean if you have a passion and want to make it a living, awesome, but it sounds like you need a lot more experience at higher stacks. I mean, I actually stake my parents (I'm serious, too), but I'd love 3k to travel to Europe or something instead of grinding away on FTP.
  14. skeeze666 skeeze666 is offline

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    Feb 2nd, 2008 (2/2/2008 11:58pm) in reply to sexyprussia

    Well, even though I believe he should not be staked by family, what you are saying is not correct...

    Sure, a trip would be great, bt staking is in its very natre an opportunity and expectation that you will receive a return... a trip will not yield that.
  15. Mkind16 Mkind16 is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

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    Feb 3rd, 2008 (2/3/2008 12:26am) in reply to DexterCain

    Stevie, I didnt say it meant a positive ROI. I said it meant a higher ROI, Just imagine how bad that guy's DB would be w/ a 20% ROI instead of 40%.
    1
  16. MarkFSU1 MarkFSU1 is offline

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    Feb 3rd, 2008 (2/3/2008 12:31am) in reply to skeeze666

    if u cant make money at $1 and $2 tournies, you cannot make money at higher levels, period
     
  17. BarryGS BarryGS is offline

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    Feb 3rd, 2008 (2/3/2008 12:38am) in reply to SantanaBandana

    Keep playing the $1-$2 and add in some $4 tolken SNG. Sooner or later you will get a score and you can move up to the $5 and $10., then to $24, then to $50, etc. I think moving up and down is the best way to learn. Cardrunners or PXF would be a great B-Day or Chirstmas gift from your father. It doesn't sound like you ready for the $24 on FTP yet. I know, it is fustrating. I have the bankroll to play at much higher limits than I play but I am forcing myself to earn my way up. I am stuck at the $24 right now even though I have several $5000 + score at WSOP and WPT events. Earn and learn go together. Just my 2 cents.
  18. wvumaniac2 wvumaniac2 is offline

    Morgantown, WV
    United States

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    Feb 3rd, 2008 (2/3/2008 1:52am) in reply to BarryGS

    i struggled with this last summer, i was always winning money in live cash games and just assumed if i had a larger bankroll i would be able to win at online MTTs. well at least for me that just wasnt true. i was cashing somewhat regularly but i didnt have what it takes to final table consistently or win anything. but after months of playing 5 and 10 dollar tourneys i was finally able to move up to 24+2's and 5 dollar rebuys. i am 10x better than i was just six months ago, but still have a long way to go to get to where i can be playing higher than those tourneys. something will start clicking if you put in enough effort and time, talking to better players, going over HH's , and getting poker tracker and subscription to training sites. i feel like if you put enough on to play 5 and 10 dollar tourneys than that should be fine. work it up the hard way and u will be better off when you get to 24+2 tourneys and up. gl
     
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