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Pot Limit Question?

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  1. yeleven_bets yeleven_bets is offline

    Posts: 118
    Joined: Mar 05

    Sep 24th, 2005 (9/24/2005 11:23pm)

    I have a lot of trouble (and find I bust the most in pot limit multis, holdem and omaha) when i wake up with a big hand, but not a made hand, in the blinds. For example, playing AK from the blinds in holdem or AAxx in omaha. Mostly this applys to situations with either one limper before the blinds, or simply a little blind-big blind confrontation with no other players in the pot. The key factor is that there is not enough money in the pot for u to be able to raise them out or shut them out of the pot, but ur hand seems too good not to raise. So u are forced to play a "big" but dangerous hand out of position.

    My question is should i raise the pot preflop with my big hand knowing that i will likely get callers be out of position the rest of the way? Or just call preflop and see if i connect before trying to push it?

    ALL responses are appreciated. Ive been bubbled or busted deep in multis a lot lately in these situations and i need advice. Please say any arguments for raising or just calling, or whatever.

    Thanks. F PLanything
  2. Davio Davio is offline

    Antwerp
    Belgium

    Posts: 505
    Joined: Sep 05

    Sep 25th, 2005 (9/25/2005 12:15am) in reply to yeleven_bets

    Very good question.

    If it's a limped pot and I wake up with AK in the blinds, I usually make a nice raise.

    Why? Because it gives me a lot of leverage on the flop. In NL, aggressive play wins pots, check/folding AK when you don't hit seems to weak to me.

    In Omaha, I never liked raising big with AAxx, 'cause you're virutally advertising you have AAxx.

    My two cents.

    Would like to see more advice on this here.
  3. bdluss bdluss is offline

    Posts: 1,331
    Joined: Apr 05

    Sep 25th, 2005 (9/25/2005 12:46am) in reply to yeleven_bets

    Really this comes down to two things. First how much pressure will you be able to put on the blind.limper with your pot raise. If you are able to put signifcant pressure on them (i.e. about 40% of their stack) then go ahead and raise pot. By dong this you will get enough chips in the pot preflop so with you having the lead, you can put the rest in on the flop. Same thing goes if your stack you can get 50% of it in preflop then go ahead and just put the rest on in on the flop.

    Now if the chip stacks are deeper, then this really depends on your ability to play flops and your comfort level playing/getting away from a big starting hand if things dont pan out. If you are good at flops, then this could be a great spot to limp in and look to trap an opponent if the right flop hits. Also, when heads up in the blinds, limping in with AK is a great mix up play. Many times your opponent will raise and then you can reraise, or if an Ace hits you can lead into the pot and your opponent will often call you down cause there is no way you would limp in with an ace.

    Also, in Omaha something to consider when raising an unraised pot with AAxx is whether you have bare aces or you have aces with some back up hands. Beyond just suited, connecting cards always helps also.

    One last thing, dont sweat bubbles for hte most part. Be concerned about making the best play possible. If you concern yourself with bubbling often you miss the bigger picture (and $) of the top payout spots.
     
  4. yeleven_bets yeleven_bets is offline

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    Sep 25th, 2005 (9/25/2005 3:12pm) in reply to bdluss

    Thank you Davio, but my question is only about pot limit holdem, not NL. I agree in NL, I would usually make a big raise to win the pot right there, since i will be out of position. This is exacly my point though, is that in pot limit, if it is an unraised pot, there is usually not enough money to legally put in a "nice" raise.

    BDluss- Thats a very good point about committing myself preflop if possible, and just moving whatever the flop. And also about deep stacks-try for a limp and then reraise. I think this is a great solution to my problem, a way to get all my chips in pre with the best of it. And if nobody raises it then just play a small pot.

    But what about for a stack that is not very deep, but not a short stack? An average stack late in a tourny on stars is only like 10-15 BBs. Not enough to commit myself preflop, but not deep enough to post flop play much. Ugh, its just a tough spot to be in. I starting to think limping/just calling is the better play here, and praying for a raise from the BB, so I can come over the top.
    Thread Starter
  5. Gabovitch Gabovitch is offline

    Nashville, TN
    United States

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    Sep 25th, 2005 (9/25/2005 4:53pm) in reply to yeleven_bets

    Obviously this situation is a little less awkward in NL because you can make a somewhat bigger raise. But just raise the pot in PL. You can make a decent sized raise still. Hopefully you can thin out the field, and either hit your hand or possibly win with a continuation bet.
  6. bdluss bdluss is offline

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    Sep 25th, 2005 (9/25/2005 7:51pm) in reply to yeleven_bets

    This can come into your knowledge or your opponent. If your opponent is tight go ahead and make the raise and follow up with a continuation bet if he calls the raise. If that opponent is quite loose and aggressive, do the same and just be prepared to go with the hand regardless of flop. Now if its an opponent who's game you respect, not a bad spot to limp with the potential to trap if the right flop hits as your good opponent won't expect your hand. Also a reason to limp against a good opponent is the disadvantage of being out of position.
     
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