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Pre-flop bet Sizing advice

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  1. SONICDAHEDGEHOG SONICDAHEDGEHOG is offline

    New Zealand

    Posts: 86
    Joined: Dec 10

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 9:05am)

    Hi all,

    I've noticed lately that i've been struggling to find an optimal strategy for bet sizing when it comes to big pocket pairs such as KK and AA pre-flop, especially during the early levels of an MTT. I haven't noticed this to be much of an issue before but, its apparent lately by the number of callers i'm now getting and the low % of my big hands holding up that, its now something i need to have a look at addressing.

    With the blinds being so small early on, it seems that people are only too willing to throw a number of chips into the pot in search of improving there wide range of pre-flop hands and more often than not seem to be successful in hitting what they need to trump my big pocket pairs.

    I'm just looking for others opinions on what they feel is the optimal way to be playing big pocket pairs early on in an MTT. Should i be adjusting my game to simply shoving on each occassion for the first few levels to try and keep these players out? I know i'm not going to get paid off this way unless someone else is willing to call off there stack (which occassionally some are) but, its starting to seem alot better than allowing opponents into the hand and them knocking me out by being lucky enough to trump my hand by the time the river comes around.

    Your thoughts...?
  2. blueboy44 blueboy44 is offline

    Laurel, DE
    United States

    Posts: 204
    Joined: Dec 10

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 9:24am) in reply to SONICDAHEDGEHOG

    Every table is different sometimes 3x opening will get 5 callers other times you'll get 1 caller. I would suggest stick to ur normal opening sizing early and adjust as u start to notice what will work best. I wouldn't get too caught up in trying to over bet ur prem hands just so they will win. I'm not sure how much volume you put in but that sounds like variance . Stay consistent w/ ur opening sizes and adjust them a little depending on what works for the table.
  3. willmccoy willmccoy is offline Self-Proclaimed H00dRich BlacKK Fish

    East Saint Louis, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,479
    Joined: Jan 07

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 3:19pm) in reply to blueboy44

    TBH and this is just the way i play early mtt. But if you are really paying attention to show down hands early on; You will notice that most huge pots early or (sets)(2pr)(flushes)ect.............! These are hands that are a product of high implied odds. When you open a premium pair in the early game; Be aware of the odds you are giving and at what % villans invest pre to call your opens.

    Usually when your opens are between 5 and 10%(bad players call 10% all the time) for players to call. Be aware post-flop of hands that fit or hit the range of these kind of hands post. If you open (AA)(KK)(QQ) ect.............@15/30 for example for 3x with 80bb effective stacks. Usually no matter the size of a normal open even to 4x will prevent players from flatting 10% or worse. From my exp. it seems like the closer to 10% of their stack they flat with pre the more i lean towards 22+ and suited broadways with a few bigger connectors.

    Any flat in the 15-20% range; Which you should not be opening this huge this early on anyway. Will be hands that want to flat in position but not raise such as AQ/AJ/TT and maybe 99 type hands. Once out of this 20% of villans stack range you get into premium type hands pre that will flat such as JJ or QQ maybe and not folding much preflop ect.

    So in other words nd IMO, don't look to stack off post very often without the proper reads and stack sizes early on. I am not a big fan of stacking off one pair hands before the antes; Unless we are around 20-25bb's effective and then im probobly just going with my premium hands no matter what; With that said i am kinda spewy and high varaince when i become short stacked.......................!!!!
  4. elimherr elimherr is online now

    Denver, CO
    United States

    Posts: 2,223
    Joined: Apr 09

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 4:20pm) in reply to willmccoy

    i just open shove AA and KK in the first few orbits...usually gets a caller and a nice double up...easy game.
     
  5. willmccoy willmccoy is offline Self-Proclaimed H00dRich BlacKK Fish

    East Saint Louis, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,479
    Joined: Jan 07

    Aug 20th, 2012 (8/20/2012 5:46pm) in reply to elimherr

     
    Originally Posted by elimherr View Post

    i just open shove AA and KK in the first few orbits...usually gets a caller and a nice double up...easy game.

    SIMPLE ENOUGH!!!!!
  6. Frank Hough Frank Hough is offline

    Rochester, MN
    United States

    Posts: 47
    Joined: Jul 11

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 12:06am) in reply to SONICDAHEDGEHOG

     
    Originally Posted by SONICDAHEDGEHOG View Post

    Hi all,

    I've noticed lately that i've been struggling to find an optimal strategy for bet sizing when it comes to big pocket pairs such as KK and AA pre-flop, especially during the early levels of an MTT. I haven't noticed this to be much of an issue before but, its apparent lately by the number of callers i'm now getting and the low % of my big hands holding up that, its now something i need to have a look at addressing.

    With the blinds being so small early on, it seems that people are only too willing to throw a number of chips into the pot in search of improving there wide range of pre-flop hands and more often than not seem to be successful in hitting what they need to trump my big pocket pairs.

    I'm just looking for others opinions on what they feel is the optimal way to be playing big pocket pairs early on in an MTT. Should i be adjusting my game to simply shoving on each occassion for the first few levels to try and keep these players out? I know i'm not going to get paid off this way unless someone else is willing to call off there stack (which occassionally some are) but, its starting to seem alot better than allowing opponents into the hand and them knocking me out by being lucky enough to trump my hand by the time the river comes around.

    Your thoughts...?

    Learn to play the game after the flop. You don't have to ship off your 80-100 big blind stack after the flop just because someone gets "lucky" on you. Everyone is calling you cause they probably recognize you're tight so you have a big hand and if they hit they will get your whole stack and it only costs like less than 5% of their stack to see the flop.
  7. yarbles yarbles is offline

    Mexico

    Posts: 823
    Joined: Sep 09

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 8:39am) in reply to Frank Hough

    First hand of Sunday storm Utg min bets and every one calls its on u in bb with full 5 k stack at 10/20. AA. U rippppppppp and get called in 3 spots 75 percNt of time and 2 100 percent.
  8. SorryImDrunk SorryImDrunk is offline Trade with Caution, trade on PocketFives reported as delayed - Could be a scammer

    Elkhart, IN
    United States

    Posts: 93
    Joined: Apr 11

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 9:27am) in reply to yarbles

     
    Originally Posted by yarbles View Post

    First hand of Sunday storm Utg min bets and every one calls its on u in bb with full 5 k stack at 10/20. AA. U rippppppppp and get called in 3 spots 75 percNt of time and 2 100 percent.

    I sit back, light a cigarette and smile...theeennn click the "ship it" button #CherishTheseMoments
     
  9. willmccoy willmccoy is offline Self-Proclaimed H00dRich BlacKK Fish

    East Saint Louis, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,479
    Joined: Jan 07

    Aug 22nd, 2012 (8/22/2012 11:36pm) in reply to SorryImDrunk

     
    Originally Posted by SorryImDrunk View Post

    I sit back, light a cigarette and smile...theeennn click the "ship it" button #CherishTheseMoments

    LOL x 2 and pray!!!
  10. opgonbad opgonbad is offline

    Morrison, CO
    United States

    Posts: 251
    Joined: Feb 10

    Aug 28th, 2012 (8/28/2012 10:49pm) in reply to elimherr

     
    Originally Posted by elimherr View Post

    i just open shove AA and KK in the first few orbits...usually gets a caller and a nice double up...easy game.

    Yep, Kill Phil/Kill everyone strat does get some dubs early
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