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Preflop committing with AAxx in PLO

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  1. gguk2008 gguk2008 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 11:07am)

    No good with probability preflop in PLO. But I know that have AAxx isn't the be all and end all in Omaha.

    Much point committing your stack preflop with AAxx in Omaha when you're 3-bet? Does the number of players at the the table affect your decision?

    Clearly if you're going to stack off, AAKK doublesuited or AKAJ doublesuited or something is preferable, but is there any point if you like money?
  2. LadyLuck84 LadyLuck84 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 11:09am) in reply to gguk2008

    There are so many variables that would come into play...

    Cash game? Tournament?

    Deep stacked? Short stacked?

    Full ring game? Short handed table?

    Every situation is different. Unless you are very short, generally with AAxx you want to get play down to HU preflop and re-evaluate the hand after the flop IMO.
  3. gguk2008 gguk2008 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 11:13am) in reply to LadyLuck84

    Cash game, 100BB.

    And the full ring/6-handed bit is what I'd like discussion to focus around really. I play solely 6-max, but when games get shorter I don't know if I want to be leaning more towards playing it fast.
    Thread Starter
  4. LadyLuck84 LadyLuck84 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 11:27am) in reply to gguk2008

    With that big of a stack there is never a situation in which you are looking to get all your chips in preflop with any AAxx hand (unless you are putting a short-stacked opponent all-in)

    Honestly, check out Jeff Hwang's new book. He's a good friend of mine and he really writes some great stuff when it comes to Omaha. (Advanced Pot-Limit Omaha: Small Ball and Short Handed Play)

    I'd also recommend picking up his first book if you don't have it already (Pot-Limit Omaha Poker).
  5. gguk2008 gguk2008 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 12:09pm) in reply to LadyLuck84

    I didn't think so. It just seems to be standard at micro stakes; no doubt as a result of holdem players moving over to 'the new game they've got with 4 cards'.

    Thanks for your responses - if I wasn't a little bit preoccupied with revising for Summer exam retakes I'd definitely buy it today. Sometime, though.
    Thread Starter
  6. Veteran In Love Veteran In Love is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 3:47pm) in reply to gguk2008

    a general rule of thumb is if you can get 35-40% (at the very minimum) or your stack in the middle preflop with AAxx, do it
     
  7. trailerAces trailerAces is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 4:13pm) in reply to Veteran In Love

     
    Originally Posted by Veteran In Love View Post

    a general rule of thumb is if you can get 35-40% (at the very minimum) or your stack in the middle preflop with AAxx, do it

    the reasoning behind this is that AAxx has a preflip edge over all other holdings. However notice that you turn your hand faceup ( bc u probably aren't 4 betting your middle rundowns) and against a good player give them a freeroll on whether to put the rest of his stack in in the flop. I'd say oop 4 bet it or fold trash aces ( yes fold) but in position I think your postflop edge in a 3 bet pot is bigger than the preflop edge of getting it comitted w/ trash aces
  8. Fkeplastictrees Fkeplastictrees is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 5:44pm) in reply to gguk2008

    I say get it in with a 4 bet. 4 bet gets you well over 50% of the effective stack in. If he calls with a rundown that is hella bad unless he just wants to flip. Often he will show up with KKxx at lower levels.

    Obv some AA are weak; unsuited, unconnected, etc. but have to push small edges in PLO.

    Ship it.
  9. Maits10 Maits10 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 7:50pm) in reply to Veteran In Love

     
    Originally Posted by Veteran In Love View Post

    a general rule of thumb is if you can get 35-40% (at the very minimum) or your stack in the middle preflop with AAxx, do it

    This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  10. WiCane WiCane is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 9:53pm) in reply to LadyLuck84

     
    Originally Posted by LadyLuck84 View Post

    With that big of a stack there is never a situation in which you are looking to get all your chips in preflop with any AAxx hand (unless you are putting a short-stacked opponent all-in)

    Honestly, check out Jeff Hwang's new book. He's a good friend of mine and he really writes some great stuff when it comes to Omaha. (Advanced Pot-Limit Omaha: Small Ball and Short Handed Play)

    I'd also recommend picking up his first book if you don't have it already (Pot-Limit Omaha Poker).

    Of course you want to get all your chips in preflop w/ AAxx because its a favorite over any other hand.

    general rule is about 40% but a lot of factors go into it.
     
  11. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2009 (7/22/2009 10:38pm) in reply to Fkeplastictrees

     
    Originally Posted by Fkeplastictrees View Post

    I say get it in with a 4 bet. 4 bet gets you well over 50% of the effective stack in. If he calls with a rundown that is hella bad unless he just wants to flip. Often he will show up with KKxx at lower levels.

    Eh I disagree. Even against AAKK double-suited, a double-suited rundown (different suits from your opponent) has 40% equity. So folding a rundown can be hella bad, especially in position, when you know your opponent has AA because he 4-bet.
  12. Fkeplastictrees Fkeplastictrees is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2009 (7/23/2009 4:45pm) in reply to leftygrove

     
    Originally Posted by leftygrove View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Fkeplastictrees View Post

    I say get it in with a 4 bet. 4 bet gets you well over 50% of the effective stack in. If he calls with a rundown that is hella bad unless he just wants to flip. Often he will show up with KKxx at lower levels.

    Eh I disagree. Even against AAKK double-suited, a double-suited rundown (different suits from your opponent) has 40% equity. So folding a rundown can be hella bad, especially in position, when you know your opponent has AA because he 4-bet.

    So when is getting most of your stack in preflop with 40% equity a good idea? Not sure I follow
  13. Rollover2k Rollover2k is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2009 (7/23/2009 6:06pm) in reply to gguk2008

    you gotta post this at the other forum, this is primarily an mtt community.. given there are like 5 regular PLO mtt/weeks you got seek some cash gamers over at 2+2.

    I see lots of half-baked advice here on a question so general that it would take a couple thousand words to rail out a decent answer.
     1
  14. Maits10 Maits10 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2009 (7/23/2009 8:18pm) in reply to Rollover2k

     
    Originally Posted by Rollover2k View Post


    you gotta post this at the other forum, this is primarily an mtt community.. given there are like 5 regular PLO mtt/weeks you got seek some cash gamers over at 2+2.

    I see lots of half-baked advice here on a question so general that it would take a couple thousand words to rail out a decent answer.

    Lefty's right.
  15. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2009 (7/23/2009 9:33pm) in reply to Fkeplastictrees

     
    Originally Posted by Fkeplastictrees View Post

     
    Originally Posted by leftygrove View Post


    Eh I disagree. Even against AAKK double-suited, a double-suited rundown (different suits from your opponent) has 40% equity. So folding a rundown can be hella bad, especially in position, when you know your opponent has AA because he 4-bet.

    So when is getting most of your stack in preflop with 40% equity a good idea? Not sure I follow

    When you have position and there's already money in the pot, you can easily call with 40% equity in position. To be honest this shit's not even debatable amongst regular players.
  16. bjybjy bjybjy is offline

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    Jul 24th, 2009 (7/24/2009 12:42am) in reply to leftygrove

     
    Originally Posted by leftygrove View Post

    Eh I disagree. Even against AAKK double-suited, a double-suited rundown (different suits from your opponent) has 40% equity. So folding a rundown can be hella bad, especially in position, when you know your opponent has AA because he 4-bet.

    This is why it is important to be willing to 4 bet with hands like 89TJ 7789 etc every once in awhile. These are some of my favorite hands to play aggressively since if an ace hits they think you HAVE to have AAxx and will fold to your C-Bet and many times people will stack off with weak two pairs etc because you MUST have AAxx and you can own them with straights, trips etc. Also if they 5bet/shove on you preflop you often aren't in horrible shape against their AAxx and are priced in to make an easy call.
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