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Posts: 2,060
Joined: Apr 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 9:41am)
Ok to start off, Blueberleez and I are good friends, have talked strategy a lot and know each other's game very well. I honestly dont think Blue is ever 3 bet bluffing here cause hes the type that like to see flops and outplay his opponent(hes a good postflop player imo) like he flats AQ and TT here(maybe JJ sometimes) not wanting to face a gross spot vs my 4 betting tight range. Anyways I tanked for a while and decided to flat since we're both over 50 bbs deep and I didnt think he was light here. ( I still think I shouldve 4 bet jammed but I dont mind my flat pre). Im sure i might get flamed for flatting but I think he shuts down with JJ if ace or king comes, and if he has AK and board comes low I dont think he'll double barrell me too often and I have a good feel for Frank's game. Board comes low I go broke etc. I know that fisheater is a reg and Im pretty sure he's on the aggro side. As played with this crazy action do you just fold the queens here?
Full Tilt Poker Game #16134478289: $18,500 Guarantee (1r+1a) (118498983), Table 9 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:24:49 ET - 2009/11/19
Seat 1: The Lab Rat (26,196)
Seat 2: The Yid (7,095)
Seat 3: fisheater111 (19,183)
Seat 5: WhySoCereus (9,431)
Seat 6: LuckyRiver1 (4,980)
Seat 7: GridIronJesse (4,199)
Seat 8: BLUEberLEEZ (21,585)
Seat 9: GAS0L N0 CH0P (6,819)
The Lab Rat antes 50
The Yid antes 50
fisheater111 antes 50
WhySoCereus antes 50
LuckyRiver1 antes 50
GridIronJesse antes 50
BLUEberLEEZ antes 50
GAS0L N0 CH0P antes 50
GridIronJesse posts the small blind of 200
BLUEberLEEZ posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Lab Rat [Qc Qs]
GAS0L N0 CH0P has 15 seconds left to act
GAS0L N0 CH0P folds
The Lab Rat raises to 999
The Yid folds
fisheater111 calls 999
WhySoCereus folds
LuckyRiver1 folds
GridIronJesse folds
BLUEberLEEZ has 15 seconds left to act
BLUEberLEEZ raises to 3,200
The Lab Rat has 15 seconds left to act
The Lab Rat has requested TIME
The Lab Rat calls 2,201
fisheater111 has 15 seconds left to act
fisheater111 raises to 8,975
BLUEberLEEZ has 15 seconds left to act
BLUEberLEEZ raises to 21,535, and is all in
The Lab Rat ????? -
Posts: 732
Joined: Dec 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 9:59am) in reply to random.chu
my default would just be jamming when it gets back to you the first time. you have 47% vs JJ and AK. i know you said he doesnt 3bet bluff but i still feel like he does at least some nonzero amount. it seems like a great spot to bluff if you are snap folding JJ to him.
if you thought that BLUE was never 3b bluffing or 3b/f value hands and didnt wanna get it in the first time around this has to be a fold based on your conclusions because his range obv didnt get any wider. yfm? -
Posts: 1,258
Joined: Apr 09Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 10:37am) in reply to The Lab Rat
if you reraise the original raise i think you'll have a better idea where you are
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Posts: 476
Joined: Apr 05Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 11:16am) in reply to chiptaker31
I fold, you are up against 2 overs for sure and probably one of them has AA or KK
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Posts: 182
Joined: Aug 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 1:37pm) in reply to The Lab Rat
*idk....flatting there seems like ur opening urself up to abuse from fisheater, hes never folding once u flat that 3 bet so best case ur in a 3 way situation with QQ i think after blue puts in 3 bet its 4 bet or fold n i would def say 4 bet...unless you have a total soul read on both
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Posts: 1,030
Joined: Jul 06Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 2:30pm) in reply to jm5under
thisOriginally Posted by jm5under
idk....flatting there seems like ur opening urself up to abuse from fisheater, hes never folding once u flat that 3 bet so best case ur in a 3 way situation with QQ i think after blue puts in 3 bet its 4 bet or fold n i would def say 4 bet...unless you have a total soul read on both
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Posts: 576
Joined: Mar 06Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 2:39pm) in reply to The Lab Rat
i tried writing a few responses but can't intelligently dissect this hand. But i will add i hate your flat, and fishes 4bet makes my head hurt. did fish and blue both spaz AK? I cant see fish 4beting the AA,KK so large...maybe he has qq too. and I cant i see blue making such a large 3 bet with AA,KK... show the hand pls youve got me curious.
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i fold even tho i am putting 1 of them on JJ-KK-AA and other on AK, but who am i anyways
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As a professional railchamp, I've seen blue get it in here with AK quite often...tbh i'd be worried more about fishe's line than anything
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so you want to flat QQ and lose all value from JJ?
Originally Posted by The Lab Rat
Ok to start off, Blueberleez and I are good friends, have talked strategy a lot and know each other's game very well. I honestly dont think Blue is ever 3 bet bluffing here cause hes the type that like to see flops and outplay his opponent(hes a good postflop player imo) like he flats AQ and TT here(maybe JJ sometimes) not wanting to face a gross spot vs my 4 betting tight range. Anyways I tanked for a while and decided to flat since we're both over 50 bbs deep and I didnt think he was light here. ( I still think I shouldve 4 bet jammed but I dont mind my flat pre). Im sure i might get flamed for flatting but I think he shuts down with JJ if ace or king comes, and if he has AK and board comes low I dont think he'll double barrell me too often and I have a good feel for Frank's game. Board comes low I go broke etc. I know that fisheater is a reg and Im pretty sure he's on the aggro side. As played with this crazy action do you just fold the queens here?
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.634% 51.06% 01.58% 183588540 5675268.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 47.366% 45.79% 01.58% 164644764 5675268.00 { QQ }
is blueberleez insanely tightest possible 3betting range (fwiw i think i'ts insanely wider), but i'll give you teh tighest range possible. with the tighest range, it's clearly obvious you have to get QQ in pre
i really can't wrap my head around why you flat pre
Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.
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Posts: 1,235
Joined: Mar 07Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 3:22pm) in reply to Gags30
^^ ThisOriginally Posted by Gags30
so you want to flat QQ and lose all value from JJ?
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.634% 51.06% 01.58% 183588540 5675268.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 47.366% 45.79% 01.58% 164644764 5675268.00 { QQ }
is blueberleez insanely tightest possible 3betting range (fwiw i think i'ts insanely wider), but i'll give you teh tighest range possible. with the tighest range, it's clearly obvious you have to get QQ in pre
i really can't wrap my head around why you flat pre
No way you want 3 hands in with QQ. The action raise/call/reraise/flat sounds like a "please squeeze" instruction to fisheater. IMO when the action gets back to you after the reraise, thats the time you decide if you are going to commit to this pot. If so make it 10Kish, if not just fold. There is a solid case for just pushing when a bet/raise gets close to 1/2 your stack in or would comit you to calling a repush so also consider a push if you choose to play.
my 2 cents -
Posts: 271
Joined: Dec 06Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 4:52pm) in reply to saukendar
If your flatting here, which I don't advocate, it has to be let to them make a bigger mistake than calling you ai pre. You only have 50bb w/ QQ and a bunch of $$$ already in the middle vs players whos ranges arent the tighest (no reg has a 0% chance to be bluffing here and both blue and fish are good players). Get it in, possibly forgo the highfive, but highfive may not be uncalled for.
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Posts: 4,913
Joined: Jun 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 5:40pm) in reply to doubledave22
when DD22 says this then it prolly isnt.. lolOriginally Posted by doubledave22
in all honesty this probably isnt a fold
idk QQ is such a strong hand but 3way against that action sucks.
fisheater11 bet looks a LOOOT like AA, unless hes spazzing out like 99 or something.
i still call because AK is in both their range and in the off-cahnce fisheater is spazzing some weird hand -
Posts: 577
Joined: Aug 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 5:45pm) in reply to Deoxyribo
i shove pre and lose to vs AJs and AKo... the ace still comes, and then i cry to phatchoy about being in 30k MU
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Posts: 182
Joined: Aug 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 5:47pm) in reply to The Lab Rat
*what are your reasons for flatting here when you know fisheater is flatting behind in the least? *minimize losses on bad flops etc. but i think flatting creates a situation where you're bound to be put to a tough decision whether it be pre or post flop
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Posts: 481
Joined: Jan 07Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 5:57pm) in reply to jm5under
IMO ... Fisheater is soooo soooo terrible in my experience w/ him ..... he's capable of doing this with all kinds of "airy" hands like QJs+/A10/AJ .... Blueberleez is trickier and better obv. ... w/ the experience you have with him ... I think it's safe to assign a 10s+/AK+ range to him ... and pretty much that range only. I can't find a fold here EVER. My guess is that fisheater was spewing and blueberleez raped him w/ like JJ or AK. You couldn't pay me to fold here ...
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Posts: 2,060
Joined: Apr 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 6:06pm) in reply to The Lab Rat
I'll be honest I have read all the replies yet. I still think I shouldve 4 bet shoved pre although I dont hate my flay. I was just a little hesitant about getting it allin preflop vs Blueberleez when, (nothing against Blue) but he just doesnt 3 bet bluff that often, especially in a spot like this. I was also a little worried about Fisheater trapping. I have a class tonight Ill post results in a few hours when I come home.
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Posts: 592
Joined: Nov 07Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 6:45pm) in reply to The Lab Rat
i also know Blue very well and know that he is very capable of a squeeze here no way i flat against him i def 4 bet and if u run into a monster then oh well but fisheater is also very aggressive if i recall with past history...against these 2 im def 4 bettin imo. only thing i feel like Blues 3 bet is pretty small here against 2 players maybe showing that he has aa but Blue is capable of a lot of hands here
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sick blueberleez image post itt
Originally Posted by The Lab Rat
I'll be honest I have read all the replies yet. I still think I shouldve 4 bet shoved pre although I dont hate my flay. I was just a little hesitant about getting it allin preflop vs Blueberleez when, (nothing against Blue) but he just doesnt 3 bet bluff that often, especially in a spot like this. I was also a little worried about Fisheater trapping. I have a class tonight Ill post results in a few hours when I come home.
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lab------no offense, this just seems like a scared fold. im never ever EVER folding QQ in this spot
i understand your inclination to fold, bc yea....my 3b is usually a nut holding in this spot, JJ+/AK (or is it?)
but sometimes u just gotta hope ur nuts is better than their nuts, and this is one of those spots.
on a sidenote....i dont think u understand how detrimental posting this hand is in relation to how regs think its best to play u, yadig? doubt im the only reg who gets involved in pots with u solely bc u dont like to make light/hero calls -
This is basically a slap in the face to blue. WP
Originally Posted by The Lab Rat
I'll be honest I have read all the replies yet. I still think I shouldve 4 bet shoved pre although I dont hate my flay. I was just a little hesitant about getting it allin preflop vs Blueberleez when, (nothing against Blue) but he just doesnt 3 bet bluff that often, especially in a spot like this. I was also a little worried about Fisheater trapping. I have a class tonight Ill post results in a few hours when I come home.
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Posts: 2,060
Joined: Apr 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 9:22pm) in reply to The Lab Rat
Full Tilt Poker Game #16134478289: $18,500 Guarantee (1r+1a) (118498983), Table 9 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:24:49 ET - 2009/11/19
Seat 1: The Lab Rat (26,196)
Seat 2: The Yid (7,095)
Seat 3: fisheater111 (19,183)
Seat 5: WhySoCereus (9,431)
Seat 6: LuckyRiver1 (4,980)
Seat 7: GridIronJesse (4,199)
Seat 8: BLUEberLEEZ (21,585)
Seat 9: GAS0L N0 CH0P (6,819)
The Lab Rat antes 50
The Yid antes 50
fisheater111 antes 50
WhySoCereus antes 50
LuckyRiver1 antes 50
GridIronJesse antes 50
BLUEberLEEZ antes 50
GAS0L N0 CH0P antes 50
GridIronJesse posts the small blind of 200
BLUEberLEEZ posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Lab Rat [Qc Qs]
GAS0L N0 CH0P has 15 seconds left to act
GAS0L N0 CH0P folds
The Lab Rat raises to 999
The Yid folds
fisheater111 calls 999
WhySoCereus folds
LuckyRiver1 folds
GridIronJesse folds
BLUEberLEEZ has 15 seconds left to act
BLUEberLEEZ raises to 3,200
The Lab Rat has 15 seconds left to act
The Lab Rat has requested TIME
The Lab Rat calls 2,201
fisheater111 has 15 seconds left to act
fisheater111 raises to 8,975
BLUEberLEEZ has 15 seconds left to act
BLUEberLEEZ raises to 21,535, and is all in
The Lab Rat folds
fisheater111 calls 10,158, and is all in
BLUEberLEEZ shows [Kd Ah]
fisheater111 shows [As Td]
Uncalled bet of 2,402 returned to BLUEberLEEZ
*** FLOP *** [4h Jh 3s]
*** TURN *** [4h Jh 3s] [Qh]
*** RIVER *** [4h Jh 3s Qh] [Qd]
BLUEberLEEZ shows a pair of Queens
fisheater111 shows a pair of Queens
BLUEberLEEZ wins the pot (42,066) with a pair of Queens
fisheater111 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 42,066 | Rake 0
Board: [4h Jh 3s Qh Qd]
Seat 1: The Lab Rat folded before the Flop
Seat 2: The Yid folded before the Flop
Seat 3: fisheater111 showed [As Td] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 5: WhySoCereus folded before the Flop
Seat 6: LuckyRiver1 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: GridIronJesse (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: BLUEberLEEZ (big blind) showed [Kd Ah] and won (42,066) with a pair of Queens
Seat 9: GAS0L N0 CH0P folded before the Flop
FML. quads tho. I just thought this was an interesting hand to post. I snap folded the queens once the 4 bet and 5 bet shove took place cause felt fisheater could easily have kk or aa as well as Blue. Also pretty funny and shocking that fisheater really did this play with a10o. Cant really imagine what he was thinking. WP Lab Rat -
Posts: 2,060
Joined: Apr 08Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 9:27pm) in reply to BLUEberLEEZ
Yea I hear you and was hesitant at first to post this hand. Wasnt trying to offend you in anyways just wanted to see what people thought. 4 of the first people I showed the hh on aim thought it was a fold and I really thought I was beat. And TBH I dont really care if people think Im a nit or that Im not that good. Just wanted to hear some input from others. Thanks all the replies againOriginally Posted by Blueberleez
lab------no offense, this just seems like a scared fold. im never ever EVER folding QQ in this spot
i understand your inclination to fold, bc yea....my 3b is usually a nut holding in this spot, JJ+/AK (or is it?)
but sometimes u just gotta hope ur nuts is better than their nuts, and this is one of those spots.
on a sidenote....i dont think u understand how detrimental posting this hand is in relation to how regs think its best to play u, yadig? doubt im the only reg who gets involved in pots with u solely bc u dont like to make light/hero calls -
Posts: 427
Joined: Feb 06Nov 20th, 2009 (11/20/2009 3:59am) in reply to The Lab Rat
LOL is this the same lab rat that came to my 100r table a few months ago and kept calling me a nit!! FYL lab rat.
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Posts: 58
Joined: Aug 08Nov 20th, 2009 (11/20/2009 4:14am) in reply to blizair
Fish eater is never flatting ur ep raise with stack sizes of those to act after without a nizzly type hand.
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