Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

Question about button vs. blinds, shove and call ranges?

Reply to Thread
  1. Gowiskijr Gowiskijr is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 615
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 8:03am)

    Warning, this could possibly be confusing or it might even be so standard that it doesnt warrant answers Im just interested in your opinions!

    Im sure this varies and is situational, but I am Just curious what your thoughts are on shove, reshove, and calling ranges? Ive read a bunch of books(harringtons, full tilt strategy, kill everyone, WPT one hand at a time and currently on vol. 2. Most of thesie books discuss these ranges. I have not memorized them but have an idea which im sure you all do to.

    So quite often you see players shoving when down to about 10bbs and theres still a big field left. You also see players reshoving with about 20bbs. What is your opinion on ranges in these situations? do you feel it is profitable to shove any 2 at any spot on the table when down to 10bbs? do you feel that its only profitable when on the button?

    Say a LAG player raises from the button and you have about 20 bbs. would you reshove any two. I guess im curious because a LAG player is more prone to call a reshove with a very wide range. While a tight player would more than likely only be raising with better hands that he would probably never fold.

    Case in point-
    I am in the money with 100 players to go.
    Im in the BB with 20 BBs and hold K7suited

    its checked to The LAG player with 75+bbs, who has been raising a ton,
    he then raises on the button

    Would you shove here?

    This might be super standard or easy to answer, Im just curious if you guys go straight by the charts provided in the books or if you make your decision based on the situation.
  2. blackstar74 blackstar74 is offline

    Cheyenne, WY
    United States

    Posts: 978
    Joined: Jul 07

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 10:03am) in reply to Gowiskijr

    being a shovemonkey is retarded. Now I know what books are teaching this retarded shit. Just turns you into a shitty player and throws my variance through the roof.
  3. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:04pm) in reply to blackstar74

    to answer ur first part, its way to Dependant on different factors like the chips stacks of the other player, if the other players are compitent, your image at the table, but in general no, its not profitable to always shove any 2 cards from any position

    but there are times that it is profitable to shove any 2 cards

    for ur scenerio if the button is LAG then i like a shove here.
     
  4. Gowiskijr Gowiskijr is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 615
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:46pm) in reply to okse54

    thanks for the replies guys.

    I agree okse, just so you know he did call with A6off.
    do you think this is a good call by him?
    Thread Starter
  5. Flopnuts1 Flopnuts1 is offline

    Posts: 563
    Joined: May 09

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 3:58pm) in reply to Gowiskijr

    I think the decision here is more dependent on his likelihood to call & range of hands he's calling with than your actual cards. If he's raising here into your stack, he's more likely to be calling lighter IMO, so you might be best off shoving with a slightly narrower range.
  6. Superleggera Superleggera is offline

    Memphis, TN
    United States

    Posts: 3,613
    Joined: Jul 08

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 4:01pm) in reply to Flopnuts1

     
    Originally Posted by Flopnuts1 View Post

    I think the decision here is more dependent on his likelihood to call & range of hands he's calling with than your actual cards. If he's raising here into your stack, he's more likely to be calling lighter IMO, so you might be best off shoving with a slightly narrower range.

    yeah I agree with this, especially in micro levels with LAG donks (don't know what levels you play). BTW his call w/ A6o is awful imo, but as flopnuts states I'd shove w/ a bit of a tighter range.

    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  7. StayCalm StayCalm is offline

    Posts: 671
    Joined: Jul 08

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 4:41pm) in reply to Flopnuts1

     
    Originally Posted by Flopnuts1 View Post

    I think the decision here is more dependent on his likelihood to call & range of hands he's calling with than your actual cards. If he's raising here into your stack, he's more likely to be calling lighter IMO, so you might be best off shoving with a slightly narrower range.

    This
  8. fly44 fly44 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,388
    Joined: May 08

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 5:01pm) in reply to Superleggera

     
    Originally Posted by Superleggera View Post

    yeah I agree with this, especially in micro levels with LAG donks (don't know what levels you play). BTW his call w/ A6o is awful imo, but as flopnuts states I'd shove w/ a bit of a tighter range.

    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

    I dont think it is too bad.

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 44.814% 39.44% 05.38% 235677524 32129624.00 { Ac6s }
    Hand 1: 55.186% 49.81% 05.38% 297657324 32129624.00 { 22+, A2s+, K7s+, Q8s+, J9s+, T9s, A2o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }
    521 1
  9. Steve Murkle Steve Murkle is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 1,483
    Joined: Nov 09

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 5:49pm) in reply to fly44

     
    Originally Posted by fly44 View Post

    I dont think it is too bad.

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 44.814% 39.44% 05.38% 235677524 32129624.00 { Ac6s }
    Hand 1: 55.186% 49.81% 05.38% 297657324 32129624.00 { 22+, A2s+, K7s+, Q8s+, J9s+, T9s, A2o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

    Agree completely its not a bad call with a6 if he is lag and competant because he understands his current image/position of raise/ etc.

    Here is a question I have: Considering he has 75 bb it makes it a profitable call for those ranges. What if he has 35 bb, is a6o still a good call?
    461 
  10. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
    United States

    Posts: 2,005
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 7:41pm) in reply to Steve Murkle

    Two weeks ago, in the mid-stages of an event, I had 35 BB on the button and knew the SB was reshoving very wide, so with suited A6, I raised to 3x, the SB (with 20 BB) jammed, the BB mucked and I snap-called. He turned over 64 os.
  11. fly44 fly44 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,388
    Joined: May 08

    Jun 11th, 2010 (6/11/2010 8:31pm) in reply to hushpuckena

     
    Originally Posted by Steve Murkle View Post

    Agree completely its not a bad call with a6 if he is lag and competant because he understands his current image/position of raise/ etc.

    Here is a question I have: Considering he has 75 bb it makes it a profitable call for those ranges. What if he has 35 bb, is a6o still a good call?

    It doesn't matter too much. He has 20bb effective so if it is +EV it is probably the right play. I say probably because of ICM and the fact that you will only have 15bb if you lose. But I still think the call is fine if you know he is on that level.
    521 1
  12. Gowiskijr Gowiskijr is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

    Posts: 615
    Joined: Jun 05

    Jun 12th, 2010 (6/12/2010 8:56am) in reply to fly44

    so do you think reshoving K7s into a LAGs button raise is +EV
    what about his call with A6off?
    is this +EV

    does ICM play a large role, after already making it into the money, in this scenario with 100 players left?
    Thread Starter
Reply to Thread