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Question about a HSP hand with Phil Galfond

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  1. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
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    May 2nd, 2011 (5/2/2011 3:44pm)

    I didn't see the episode - just read the article on the front page. One of the hands mentioned was:

     

    Galfond scooped a $105,000 pot at the expense of Silly Bandz creator and DeepStacks University investor Robert Croak. On a flop of 2-8-K, Croak fired out a bet of $5,500 with A-6 for ace-high and Galfond called behind with A-K for top pair. The turn was a five and Croak continued to bet, this time $10,700, and Galfond once again called. The final card was a 10. Croak pushed out $15,800 in chips, Galfond raised to nearly $50,000, and Croak got out of the way.

    I'm curious why Galfond would raise the river. I've seen a couple episodes with Silly Bandz Guy on, and he doesn't seem to be incredibly splashy. He's not nearly as nitty as some of the other businessmen players who have been on the show, but I don't see him making a lot of crying calls. Is he calling with JJ, QQ, KQ, KJ...something Galfond can beat...enough to make it a value raise? If not (and I don't think he would), then why?
    Edited By: grapsfan May 2nd, 2011 at 03:45 PM
     
  2. Parky 32 Parky 32 is offline

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    May 2nd, 2011 (5/2/2011 6:21pm) in reply to grapsfan

    God point Graps. Maybe Phil put him specifically on KQ, KJ like you said above.
    River raise doesn't make much sense.
     
  3. bazingaking bazingaking is offline

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    May 2nd, 2011 (5/2/2011 6:42pm) in reply to Parky 32

    I agree, perhaps galfond thought he had so under-repped his hand that he had a possibility of getting crying calls like the hands you suggested. Presumably he thought a set on the flop was unlikely because it wouldn't 3 barrel into him.
  4. satchmo satchmo is offline

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    May 2nd, 2011 (5/2/2011 7:33pm) in reply to bazingaking

    I am in no way qualified to post in this thread, but i do so regardless!!!1!!

    logically, it doesn't make the most sense so. . .possible metagaming for future use? especially since this is on tv and the cards are known. perhaps this is how he'll get dwan to pay him off on a hand in 6 months.
  5. BreakEvenFish BreakEvenFish is offline

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    May 2nd, 2011 (5/2/2011 11:04pm) in reply to Parky 32

     
    Originally Posted by Parky 32 View Post

    God point Graps. Maybe Phil put him specifically on KQ, KJ like you said above.
    River raise doesn't make much sense.

    There's probably a good gameflow reason for it, too. Phil is really big into gameflow adjustments.
  6. ryan beckwith ryan beckwith is offline

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    May 3rd, 2011 (5/3/2011 12:15am) in reply to BreakEvenFish

    When I watched this hand I could not really find the point in raising the river. I do not often question any of Galfond's plays but this seemed a little questionable for sure would love to hear his thoughts on this play.
     1
  7. CalBandGreat CalBandGreat is offline

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    May 3rd, 2011 (5/3/2011 12:32am) in reply to ryan beckwith

    Phil raised pre-flop and Croak just called, so Phil probably assumes that Croak would not lead the flop with a set, as he would look to check raise with something that big, as Phil is very likely to c-bet. On the river, it looked like Croak was going for a thin value bet because of how small he bet on the river, Phil beats all thin value bets. Phil has an aggressive image and he thought it was likely that Croak would put him on a bluff, so he trys a thin value raise trying to get a call from a worse King. If I remember correctily a lot of the players thought Phil was bluffing after the hand was over. Finally Phil knows that there is almost no chance that Croak 3 bets him without the nuts or close to it, so the chance of getting bluffed off the hand is very, very low and folding to a 3 bet would be easy.
     
  8. Sagacious Man Sagacious Man is online now

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    May 3rd, 2011 (5/3/2011 2:22am) in reply to CalBandGreat

    I thought this also when I read it.

    Croak's bluff line was just terrible and he really just repped a mediocre hand, so I can see how Phil could raise there for value.
  9. jeppg1111 jeppg1111 is offline Disabled account

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    May 3rd, 2011 (5/3/2011 9:42am) in reply to Sagacious Man

    as played i see value in betteing the river all day, esp when phil is check calling twice, he was pry thinking that he could def. get a crying call with some mediocre hands.

    c/call
    c/call in position seems kinna weak; generally, he was value betting/pry making it look like a bluff

    this is a point in case for thin value and some table dynamic, he's a beast with a strong read and he acts on that

    getting bet into on the river does change the dynamic of the hand too, Galfond is a beast tho and saw value here; i guess looking back at the hand getting barreled into 3 times I would almost never be raising - so pretty much disregard this post
     
  10. ricardogcl ricardogcl is offline

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    May 3rd, 2011 (5/3/2011 2:55pm) in reply to CalBandGreat

     
    Originally Posted by CalBandGreat View Post

    Phil raised pre-flop and Croak just called, so Phil probably assumes that Croak would not lead the flop with a set, as he would look to check raise with something that big, as Phil is very likely to c-bet. On the river, it looked like Croak was going for a thin value bet because of how small he bet on the river, Phil beats all thin value bets. Phil has an aggressive image and he thought it was likely that Croak would put him on a bluff, so he trys a thin value raise trying to get a call from a worse King. If I remember correctily a lot of the players thought Phil was bluffing after the hand was over. Finally Phil knows that there is almost no chance that Croak 3 bets him without the nuts or close to it, so the chance of getting bluffed off the hand is very, very low and folding to a 3 bet would be easy.

    this makes sense!!!
     
  11. flashdisastr flashdisastr is offline

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    May 3rd, 2011 (5/3/2011 6:08pm) in reply to ricardogcl

    phil doesnt raise the flop in the first place because he wants his oponent to keep barreling with a worse hand. Then on river that bet looks either like a cheap bluff or a thin value bet, seams like an easy raise with an agressiv image, because as stated above he pretty much never has a set and Phil cant beat everything pretty much just not a set. The river bet seams weak imo.... And obv the amateur wont reraise bluff that raise on that board lol
    38 
  12. tom44411 tom44411 is offline

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    May 5th, 2011 (5/5/2011 10:25pm) in reply to flashdisastr

    i honestly think was a raise for metagame. if hes called he shows AK and ppl take note. but when croak folds ppl still scratch their heads a bit for the exact reason as your question. what could he possibly be raising there? he knows he has the best hand and if hes called he gets paid and if he doesnt hes prob going to be able to pull the same move later on either as a bluff or nuts so i really think its just trying to establish his presence cause he was playing almost every hand. and if you noice hes really making a point to pick on laak
    Edited By: tom44411 May 5th, 2011 at 10:25 PM
     
  13. bonflizubi bonflizubi is online now

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    May 6th, 2011 (5/6/2011 3:28pm) in reply to tom44411

     
    Originally Posted by tom44411 View Post

    i honestly think was a raise for metagame. if hes called he shows AK and ppl take note. but when croak folds ppl still scratch their heads a bit for the exact reason as your question. what could he possibly be raising there? he knows he has the best hand and if hes called he gets paid and if he doesnt hes prob going to be able to pull the same move later on either as a bluff or nuts so i really think its just trying to establish his presence cause he was playing almost every hand. and if you noice hes really making a point to pick on laak

    COmpletely agree. THere really isn't any downside here if he knows he is good with that hand. People know he'll raise rivers later etc... might prevent guys from going for thin value for one letting him showdown ccheap, and let him bluff or value with raises in teh future.
     
  14. chaz78 chaz78 is offline

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    May 6th, 2011 (5/6/2011 6:25pm) in reply to tom44411

     
    Originally Posted by tom44411 View Post

    i honestly think was a raise for metagame. if hes called he shows AK and ppl take note. but when croak folds ppl still scratch their heads a bit for the exact reason as your question. what could he possibly be raising there? he knows he has the best hand and if hes called he gets paid and if he doesnt hes prob going to be able to pull the same move later on either as a bluff or nuts so i really think its just trying to establish his presence cause he was playing almost every hand. and if you noice hes really making a point to pick on laak

    WP 100% what I was thinking one of the rare cases where he didn't want a showdown with the best hand and a river raise serves all the right purposes for his image
     
  15. ryan beckwith ryan beckwith is offline

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    May 6th, 2011 (5/6/2011 9:01pm) in reply to chaz78

    There may be reasons to raise as far as for further meta game etc. As far as playing the hand especially vs a guy who on previous episodes had layed down some big hands he is not getting called by worse ever and I would not put it past him to lead with a set on this board tbh.
     1
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