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Question about the Nightly Hundred Final Table

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  1. Felted Felted is offline

    Latrobe, PA
    United States

    Posts: 76
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 3:13am)

    I OPR'd JLizard and watched his play and knew he was very competent. I thought his shoving range would be something like 22+,A5s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs+,A7o+KTo+,QTo,JTo (22.5%) because I thought i probably looked weak to him from my play the last couple of rounds and I thought he may think I could raise/fold in this spot.

    I thought his range for calling a shove would be much smaller and after stoving it after the ft I came up with 9.2% - 66+, A9s+, and ATs+. Given my assumptions, I know raise calling is more profitable than open shoving when just considering chip ev.

    I want to know what you think about my assumptions for his ranges and what I need to consider in order to adjust them. Also, am I incorrect in using just chip ev at a final table or should I be considering payouts and using ICM...because uhh, I don't have a firm understanding of it.

    Assassinato wins this thing, obv.

    pokerstars Game #23206601723: Tournament #128525511, $150+$12 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (6000/12000) - 2008/12/24 3:07:13 ET
    Table '128525511 83' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 2: JLizard (621442 in chips)
    Seat 3: ShoeGirl69 (262835 in chips)
    Seat 4: droniko (432693 in chips)
    Seat 5: KWBubba (176524 in chips)
    Seat 6: 10 UDR PAR (289783 in chips)
    Seat 7: Assassinato (330183 in chips)
    Seat 8: Felted_Good (188217 in chips)
    Seat 9: Playaplzzz (290323 in chips)
    JLizard: posts the ante 1200
    ShoeGirl69: posts the ante 1200
    droniko: posts the ante 1200
    KWBubba: posts the ante 1200
    10 UDR PAR: posts the ante 1200
    Assassinato: posts the ante 1200
    Felted_Good: posts the ante 1200
    Playaplzzz: posts the ante 1200
    Playaplzzz: posts small blind 6000
    JLizard: posts big blind 12000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Felted_Good [9s As]
    ShoeGirl69: folds
    droniko: folds
    KWBubba: folds
    10 UDR PAR: folds
    Assassinato: folds
    Felted_Good: raises 19000 to 31000
    Playaplzzz: folds
    JLizard: raises 569000 to 600000
    Felted_Good: calls 156017 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (412983) returned to JLizard
    *** FLOP *** [4c 7c Js]
    *** TURN *** [4c 7c Js] [8h]
    *** RIVER *** [4c 7c Js 8h] [4s]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    JLizard: shows [2c 2s] (two pair, Fours and Deuces)
    Felted_Good: shows [9s As] (a pair of Fours)
    Assassinato said, "gg"
    Anbessa9 [observer] said, "doooooceeeeeeee"
    JLizard collected 389634 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 389634 | Rake 0
    Board [4c 7c Js 8h 4s]
    Seat 2: JLizard (big blind) showed [2c 2s] and won (389634) with two pair, Fours and Deuces
    Seat 3: ShoeGirl69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: droniko folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: KWBubba folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: 10 UDR PAR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: Assassinato folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: Felted_Good (button) showed [9s As] and lost with a pair of Fours
    Seat 9: Playaplzzz (small blind) folded before Flop
     
  2. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

    Manhattan, KS
    United States

    Posts: 7,332
    Joined: Apr 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 4:45am) in reply to Felted

    I'm not folding this button vs blind <20bb. You got what you wanted, just UL you missed. Raise folding would be kind of bad for this very reason. That's my .02 anyway.

    EDIT: Assass pwns.
  3. taypaur taypaur is offline

    Limassol
    Cyprus

    Posts: 724
    Joined: Jan 08

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 5:22am) in reply to Felted

    just shove
    320 12
  4. wandigo wandigo is offline

    Posts: 3,353
    Joined: May 06

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 8:18am) in reply to Felted

    Looks fine, I prefer raise/call over open shoving.

    pretty standard night for Assassinato I must say
     1
  5. Felted Felted is offline

    Latrobe, PA
    United States

    Posts: 76
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 11:08am) in reply to Felted

    meh... it really is difficult to get quality feedback on pocketfives these days. Obviously im not raise/folding. My decision was between raise/calling and shoving and I'm happy with my play. I'm looking for specific advice for narrowing a range.
     
    Thread Starter
  6. holdplz holdplz is offline

    Mexico

    Posts: 1,000
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 11:15am) in reply to Felted

    i open shove. thats just me though.
    128 
  7. Cuthroat187 Cuthroat187 is offline

    Norwalk, CT
    United States

    Posts: 1,951
    Joined: Jun 06

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 11:25am) in reply to holdplz

    Shove that shit in yo
  8. alwaysdrowning alwaysdrowning is offline

    Jarrettsville, MD
    United States

    Posts: 2,088
    Joined: Aug 05

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 11:39am) in reply to bef99hwk

    If you went through that analysis before making the decision than I think you are fully correct to raise/call. I don't like open shoving obviously vs. a competent player b/c like you said it does give him a chance to rr light and make a mistake. If you have made up your mind to r/c than I like your play. Vs a weaker player I would open shove, but as played I think you did fine.

    I cannont comment on ICM calculations at a FT bc I never make them anymore. :(
  9. GrayFOX22 GrayFOX22 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 925
    Joined: Jun 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 5:53pm) in reply to Felted

    :(
     
  10. Felted Felted is offline

    Latrobe, PA
    United States

    Posts: 76
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 8:14pm) in reply to GrayFOX22

    I didn't really read your reply because most of it is irrelevant considering it's folded to me on the button and Jlizard is in the bb. He doesn't have an opportunity to get anyone oop to do anything crazy because it is heads up. and lol at Jlizard wanting to induce a shove from another player in a spot like this with something as weak as AQo
     
    Thread Starter
  11. GrayFOX22 GrayFOX22 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 925
    Joined: Jun 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 8:22pm) in reply to Felted

    Wow sorry, total freaking misread of HH. I will bow my head in shame and delete the post. :(
     
  12. Assassinato Assassinato is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 2,703
    Joined: Sep 06

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 8:48pm) in reply to Felted

    Just snap shove that shit.
    239 1 

    Assassinato is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  13. IBGrindin IBGrindin is offline

    Columbus, OH
    United States

    Posts: 3,408
    Joined: Jul 05

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 9:34pm) in reply to Assassinato

    I'd shove on the Ace alone, wouldn't care if I had another card or not if it folded to me on the button.
     
  14. Felted Felted is offline

    Latrobe, PA
    United States

    Posts: 76
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 9:43pm) in reply to Assassinato

    Assassinato, why open shove instead of raise/calling when I'm almost positive my expected value is greater when I raise/call? Should I be giving more consideration to the fact that I'm sticking around in the tourney more often if I open shove? I'm more concerned with giving myself an opportunity to win the tourney than moving up a spot or two. I just want some insight as to why you're shoving there and with how many bb's are you specifically going to raise/call?
     
    Thread Starter
  15. lockdownpokah lockdownpokah is offline

    United States

    Posts: 2,289
    Joined: Sep 07

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 9:48pm) in reply to Felted

    shove here all day
     
  16. ronkend ronkend is offline

    Bosnia and Herzegovina

    Posts: 5,588
    Joined: May 05

    Dec 24th, 2008 (12/24/2008 9:48pm) in reply to Felted

    shove, he isn't calling that with 22
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