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question about raising and all in

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  1. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

    IL
    United States

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    Joined: May 08

    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 3:15am)

    I was playing a home game earlier today and wanted to make sure I was right which I think I am but I cant find the specific scenerio online anywhere taht happened. I raise to 10 on the button.. bb makes it 30... a few players down has 46 chips he goes all in... i reach for a reraise but am told thats not allowed... so whatever im like thats not right. the bb calls the extra 16... anyway not being results oriented i lost a small pot of my aa vs jj when the j flopped. thats fine... but I believe I should have been allowed to reraise the 46 to whatever I wanted because I am still acting on the bb 30 raise. After the hand I tried to clarify I should have been allowed to raise and got into a discussion with the dealer(the guy who runs the poker game) and was trying to explain how I should have been able to reraise I thought but he said no because there was a raise and an all in that I cant. Now If I raised and am flatted by the bb and the all in has less than half a bet I can not reraise... that is my understanding from what I have read and how I played... Am I wrong in any of my understandings of the betting? Reguardless of what the ruling is I wont be playing at the guys house again I jsut wanted to know whats right and whats not right.
  2. shallowcal shallowcal is offline

    Ann Arbor, MI
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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 5:01am) in reply to Adam013085

    yeah you can reraise this pot pre
  3. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 10:00am) in reply to shallowcal

    thats what I thought, just wanting another opinion other than me and my friends. I thought I could thanks
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  4. rusnak2 rusnak2 is offline

    Sydney
    Australia

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 10:37am) in reply to Adam013085

    I'm no expert, but I believe I understand this one and I'll happily stand corrected as I'm sure there are plenty of rules experts around.

    The key is that the all-in of 46 is not a minimum re-raise. Since the bb raised 20 (from 10 to 30), a minimum re-raise would need to be to 50. If his all-in was 50 then you'd be allowed to re-raise.

    Now if the situation were a little different - a bet of 10, raise to 30, all-in to 46, then anyone behind the 46 bet who had not had an opportunity to bet in this betting round would be able to re-raise, however, since you already had a chance to bet in this round then you would not be allowed to re-raise, nor would would the person who raised to 30.

    I hope this is clear and I hope more importantly that it's correct!

    Tom
  5. Lord Supremo Lord Supremo is offline actually a tuvalu lord (sigh)

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 10:44am) in reply to rusnak2

     
    Originally Posted by rusnak2 View Post

    I'm no expert, but I believe I understand this one and I'll happily stand corrected as I'm sure there are plenty of rules experts around.

    The key is that the all-in of 46 is not a minimum re-raise. Since the bb raised 20 (from 10 to 30), a minimum re-raise would need to be to 50. If his all-in was 50 then you'd be allowed to re-raise.

    Now if the situation were a little different - a bet of 10, raise to 30, all-in to 46, then anyone behind the 46 bet who had not had an opportunity to bet in this betting round would be able to re-raise, however, since you already had a chance to bet in this round then you would not be allowed to re-raise, nor would would the person who raised to 30.

    I hope this is clear and I hope more importantly that it's correct!

    Tom

    I don't think this is right. As I understand it, if OP had flatted the all in, then the 3betting villain would not be allowed to raise. But since the all in was less than a complete raise, its treated as though the guy who shoved had merely called and obviously OP should be allowed to 4bet over a 3bet and a call.
  6. StayCalm StayCalm is offline

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 4:13pm) in reply to Lord Supremo

     
    Originally Posted by Lord Supremo View Post

    I don't think this is right. As I understand it, if OP had flatted the all in, then the 3betting villain would not be allowed to raise. But since the all in was less than a complete raise, its treated as though the guy who shoved had merely called and obviously OP should be allowed to 4bet over a 3bet and a call.

    This is correct
  7. TheWhitePele TheWhitePele is offline

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 4:21pm) in reply to StayCalm

    You can definiely re-raise pre for a side pot
  8. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 5:50pm) in reply to TheWhitePele

    cool. Thanks. That was how I understood it too and tried to explain it but the guy wouldnt have any of it so I completed the hand got up right after it was done cashed out and left and wont be playing there anymore. You would think a guy running an illegal poker room in his garage would at least know the rules of the game but guess not. Hes only been running it a year or so twice a week kinda funny
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  9. R_U_Nuts R_U_Nuts is offline

    South Bend, IN
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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 6:05pm) in reply to Adam013085

    At the casino boat I play at you would not be allowed a raise. It's goofy and I don't know why they do it that way but I have seen this same thing 100 times and its always the same. The reason they give is that the all in did not make a complete raise. Example you raise to 10 then are raised to 30 (thats a raise of 20) the all in is only raising another 16 to 46. Don't ask me why they do it this way but at the couple of places that are near me thats the way they do it.
  10. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

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    Aug 2nd, 2010 (8/2/2010 6:12pm) in reply to R_U_Nuts

    If I play somewhere where I can not reraise the person to raise me like that I dont think I would wanna play there again. Your trying to protect your hand but you are inviting some random ass hand in the pot cheap. Its not the right ruling but whatever o well, guess if you wanna play ya gotta play by the casinos rules.
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