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Question for Ex-Degen Grinders

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  1. tjones098 tjones098 is offline

    Posts: 59
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 4:19pm)

    What was the most significant occurance that had the most impact on successfully ending your degenerate days and becoming a consistent winning grinder? Please only post if you're a serious grinder who was once a busto degen for a decent amt of time who had a breaking point and ended the self destruction. thx
  2. Appst08 Appst08 is offline

    Posts: 5,543
    Joined: Sep 07

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 4:41pm) in reply to tjones098

    what's an ex-degen?
     
  3. virtualthief virtualthief is offline

    NJ
    United States

    Posts: 325
    Joined: Nov 06

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 4:45pm) in reply to tjones098

    quitting drinking
  4. jrrotonda59 jrrotonda59 is offline

    New Albany, OH
    United States

    Posts: 841
    Joined: Apr 08

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 4:48pm) in reply to virtualthief

     
    Originally Posted by Hotcarl69 View Post

    quitting drinking

  5. tjones098 tjones098 is offline

    Posts: 59
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 4:53pm) in reply to Appst08

     
    Originally Posted by Appst08 View Post

    what's an ex-degen?

    someone who was once a degen but is now a consistent player that dont tilt off rolls etc..
    Thread Starter
  6. Nickc011 Nickc011 is offline The Law

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 9,907
    Joined: Aug 05

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 5:06pm) in reply to tjones098

    I used to be a dedicated grinder until Call of Duty 4 game out.
     
  7. wny2nyc47 wny2nyc47 is offline

    Princeton, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 1,229
    Joined: Nov 06

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 5:08pm) in reply to Appst08

     
    Originally Posted by Appst08 View Post

    what's an ex-degen?

    There is kind of an oxymoronic quality to the term‚ isn't there?
  8. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 5:17pm) in reply to tjones098

    I definitely don't fit the criteria in the OP, but I have taught enough people to see a lot of different mindsets come and go.

    Most people who start off losers don't have the patience to become winners. I can't tell you the number of players that come to me already able to beat $5 games, but they lose because they play $10 games. I teach them enough so that they can beat $20 games, and they go play $50 games and lose even more.

    The answers the way I see them... here are the types of people that go from losing to winning:

    1. Those who are ignorant of what bankroll management is. A lot of players start as losers because they don't know what bankroll management is, then later they learn about it, and then become a winner with that info.

    2. Those not willing to play low limit games because they feel that they are a waste of time. Some people both can't beat $20+ games and refuse to play the highest games they can beat (low limits) because the buyin is too small and they consider those stakes a waste of time and not worth it, rather than accepting their skill level and treating the lower limits as a training ground. Sometimes they eventually improve enough to beat the lowest games they are willing to play, though it's rare. This route usually costs thousands of dollars and a lot more time than working your way up.

    3. Honest people who aren't responsible with their own money, and then get backed. Some people play well, and know how to win, but tilt a lot and chase losses, so they go broke every so often. A decent percentage of these people that are not responsible enough to manage their own money well are at least responsible enough not to tilt off a backer's money.

    4. Those that have a good friend that they respect that uses good bankroll management that laughs at them for being a degenerate. Some look up to a friend like this and don't want to disappoint them, then after following a plan for a while, realize it's the only way to go.

    5. Immature players that over time become more mature, or that learn from their mistakes. Immaturity (not to be confused with being young) often leads to destructive behavior and once someone has been through those mistakes enough, they sometimes just decide to make a fucking change and become winners. A lot of people that this happens to false start a lot before they get it right for good one day.

    Here are the types of people that almost never learn to win:

    1. Those who blame luck for their problems. These people don't analyze their own game and think that they are good, and would be winners if only their luck was "average or better". They don't take responsibility for improving their own game and want to find someone or something to blame for their own failures.

    2. Those who move up too fast and are never willing to move down. Sometimes the game changes and you have to move down or sometimes you go on a prolonged hot streak that causes you to move up prematurely, because you think you are better than you are.

    3. Habitual tilters. The edge in poker is a small one and if someone can't exercise self-control that edge is nullified.

    4. Those who promote themselves to a level of incompetance. Fox explains it a lot better than I ever could. http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-art...-poker-2426059

    5. Gamblers. Those who lose and move up to chase their losses will never get there. It takes so many low limit games to offset one of these bankroll-busters that if it happens more than once or twice in their lifetime, they will never catch up.

    --------

    Once a player realizes that the formula for winning is:

    (Your skill)-(opponents skill)-(rake) > 0

    and understand bankroll management to combat variance

    then they are pretty much unbeatable.

    Hope that helps
  9. chstone chstone is offline

    State College, PA
    United States

    Posts: 493
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    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 5:19pm) in reply to tjones098

    I was never a "degen grinder" but I wasn't really a winning player. Getting a lesson from Jennifear changed all that. Although the actual lesson helped a ton I think a big part of it was just the fact that I made an investment in my game and I really didn't want it to go to waste so I game-planned a lot more. I managed my roll a lot better, set achievable goals, began multi-tabling better, and started to consistently win money. So in short, spending money on your game via a lesson or a training site or something could be the answer.
  10. ronkend ronkend is offline

    Bosnia and Herzegovina

    Posts: 5,588
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    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 5:23pm) in reply to chstone

    once a degen, always a degen.

    You gotta study the game plain and simple.
  11. Ohiocity Ohiocity is offline

    Cleveland, OH
    United States

    Posts: 160
    Joined: Aug 08

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 6:18pm) in reply to tjones098

    Jennifear is the voice of reason in this mad poker world....
  12. pinishe45 pinishe45 is offline

    London
    Canada

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    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 6:52pm) in reply to Ohiocity

    for me it was def putting in consistent volume.
    573 
  13. tjones098 tjones098 is offline

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    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 8:32pm) in reply to Jennifear

    thanks alot jennifear, it did help but the thing is, i have a friend that grinds alot and he has helped me alot in poker in my skill and alot of aspects of the game and i look up to him alot but the thing is i know i can beat the bigger games its just my main issue is i cant handle downswings i tilt almost everytime. I like what you said about where when you go on a hot streak it makes u think ur much better than u r cause the edge is so small, thats a problem also and so when the downswing hits it messes with my head and i chase losses alot. Im pretty sure it has alot to do with my immaturity im just not sure, i just basically need to stop being a bitch and learn that rome wasnt built in a day. Im gonna start setting small goals and apply stop losses and move down when i need to and hopefully it will help. I've done this many times b4 and i know more than the average degenerate does at the game but i gotta control my tilt issues or im gonna drive myself insane.
    Thread Starter
  14. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 8:35pm) in reply to tjones098

     
    Originally Posted by tjones098 View Post

    thanks alot jennifear, it did help but the thing is, i have a friend that grinds alot and he has helped me alot in poker in my skill and alot of aspects of the game and i look up to him alot but the thing is i know i can beat the bigger games its just my main issue is i cant handle downswings i tilt almost everytime. I like what you said about where when you go on a hot streak it makes u think ur much better than u r cause the edge is so small, thats a problem also and so when the downswing hits it messes with my head and i chase losses alot. Im pretty sure it has alot to do with my immaturity im just not sure, i just basically need to stop being a bitch and learn that rome wasnt built in a day. Im gonna start setting small goals and apply stop losses and move down when i need to and hopefully it will help. I've done this many times b4 and i know more than the average degenerate does at the game but i gotta control my tilt issues or im gonna drive myself insane.

    You aren't alone. Based on posts you might see here every day you might think that everyone's winning. Few people who even have the ability to beat this game have the discipline to do so. Keep studying and stay disciplined and focused. Solve that tilt issue. I mean just be done with it forever. If you can do that, you'll make it. Good luck!
  15. Defndrofangels Defndrofangels is offline

    CA
    United States

    Posts: 6,071
    Joined: Sep 08

    Jul 6th, 2009 (7/6/2009 8:40pm) in reply to Jennifear

    such a great answer by jennifear
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