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Question for Limit Players - raising to get a free card.

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  1. kanataholdem kanataholdem is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 159
    Joined: Sep 06

    Dec 27th, 2007 (12/27/2007 11:16am)

    Question for any of you limit players out there in regards to "raising to get a free card". This concept seems pretty straightforward in the situation where you have a drawing hand, and raise the flop bet to try and see the turn and maybe even river card for free. But are there any other situations where you might make this or a similar play ?. Also, I am curious if anyone here makes a living playing mid to high stakes limit poker, and if so, what kind of profit expectancy do you have ?..thanks
  2. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 23,112
    Joined: Jan 06

    Dec 27th, 2007 (12/27/2007 11:19am) in reply to kanataholdem

    I would think against a decent player, you should just be calling rather than raising if you want to see your draw cheaply. Most decent players will recognise the drawy board and go ahead and 3-bet you to try and build the pot if they have a strong hand, and since nobody ever folds in Limit I would think you should just try and get there as cheaply as possible, unless your hand has showdown value, like A or K high, then just go ahead and re-raise.
  3. xTEDFORRESTx xTEDFORRESTx is offline

    Bucharest
    Romania

    Posts: 2,213
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 27th, 2007 (12/27/2007 12:00pm) in reply to jtown1010

    wow, almost totally wrong in every aspect.

    A lot of times not only are you raising to get a free card, but there might be enough players to give you odds to continue even if you don't get a freebie. Or if you backdoor a hand, the flop raise might get the better hand to fold later.

    "Decent players recognize drawy boards and 3-bet" and "nobody ever folds in Limit" are two distinct concepts rarely found at the same table, and either way, A or K high showdown value against either group is pretty useless.

    Raising to get a free card is an excellent tool, but it is most effective when you

    mix it up    .

    You should be making the other player think this: after you raise and check the turn, did you just raise to get a free card? What if you are actually doing a stop-and-go? Inducing a river bluff with the flopped nuts? semi-bluff depending on the river?
  4. razerector74 razerector74 is offline

    Brookeville, MD
    United States

    Posts: 15
    Joined: Apr 07

    Dec 27th, 2007 (12/27/2007 3:37pm) in reply to kanataholdem

    Nothing at all wrong with the raising to see free cards play IMO. The key word for me though is IN POSITION. AS long as the raise is made in position most of the time the play has a high implied odd expectation. Two things though, pay attention to pot odds and player tendencies. This works the best against TAG players. As far as pot odds go, even if your draw comes in after the raise, but you weren't getting enough on implied odds even though you win the hand it still was a negative EV play. So pot odds and position are a must.

    As far as profit expectancy I assume your talking about online play. I played limit mostly live and built up a pretty nice bankroll. It was low limit though(3/6). But I still averaged about 4 big bets per hour, which Ive heard is pretty good.
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