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Raise/Re-Raise amounts in Lower stakes vs. High stakes MTT's

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  1. Jack_Diamondz Jack_Diamondz is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 183
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 2:56am)

    Hey I would love to hear from all players about something I've noticed while railing and playing.

    I've noticed that in alot of the Major tournies that players are more inclined to raise ~2.5bb rather than the three in the mid/late tourney stages. I really don't get why this occurs, especially considering often the barrage of re-raises that occur when a 2.5bb raise is made.

    Although I wouldn't have any official stats, it seems to occur alot that someone will pop it up when there is a 2.5bb raise. At these stakes these players know what they are doin, but they must be re-raising occasionally light. I was wondering what kind of percentage a strong player would re-raise light.

    On the other hand, when playing in lower stakes, a 3 or 4 bb raise is made. Only occasionally is this met with a re-raise. Most of the time a call is made or the blinds and antes are stolen.

    Why is it that pro's prefer the 2.5BB raise with antes in play? Doesn't it beg for a re-raise/defence from BB?
  2. chachacheeba chachacheeba is offline

    Posts: 506
    Joined: Feb 08

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 3:01am) in reply to Jack_Diamondz

    dude just a micro donk but it would seem that if your raising just to steal then you intend to fold to a reraise. whereas you save .5 blind or take the pot down. but in lower stakes tournies you can shove and still get called down. just my 2 cents.
  3. Jack_Diamondz Jack_Diamondz is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 183
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 3:15am) in reply to chachacheeba

    See that's the crux of it though.

    We all know that we only get super premium hands a small percent of the time. Most of the other time we are getting cards that may be very playable but most of the time vulnerable whether they be mid PP's or hands like QKo, JK, JQ, JT you name it. JJ will see an overcard on the flop 52% of the time.

    Most often than not we are raising with these sorts of hands. When we raise it's almost never purely to steal the blinds/antes. We raise with that prospect but also we raise with cards that warrants the sight of a flop if necessary.

    However, I find that a 2.5BB raise often gets re-raised or defended with a higher frequency. Why is it at the higher stakes we see a 2.5BB raise as almost standard?
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  4. jacob_bu jacob_bu is offline

    Waco, TX
    United States

    Posts: 126
    Joined: Nov 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 3:37am) in reply to Jack_Diamondz

    1 - because a 2.5x raise will get treated the same as a 3x raise most of the time so you save .5 of a blind every raise

    2 - you keep the pot smaller so you can cbet a smaller amount and again save chips.

    3 - most good players don't mind seeing a flop with position vs a weak player who's idea of 'defending their blind' is to call a raise then check-fold most flops.

    4 - some of the differences you are noticing between high stakes and lower stakes games (more 3-betting) are just the more advanced plays and have nothing to do with the raise amounts. you are making a huge mistake atributing these plays to the raise amounts.
     
  5. Jack_Diamondz Jack_Diamondz is offline

    Australia

    Posts: 183
    Joined: Apr 07

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 3:51am) in reply to jacob_bu

    1 - Doesn't this hurt your image and make you more vulnerable to the advanced plays (see 4)?

    2 - Very fair point.

    3 - I understand that against weaker players they can be outplayed, but by the mid/late stages of the tourney tables are stacked with strong opponents.

    4 - Advance plays such as isolation, squeeze, history creation, are there others? I know that you need to do this to go along with when you actually have a strong hand, so your saying that these things would occur with as much frequency if the 3-4bb bets are made?
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