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raising 88 and 99 ep with 20-25bb then facing a shove........help!!!

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  1. aconsuma aconsuma is offline

    Posts: 309
    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 3:54am)

    Ok this is a situation that I find myself in more than I'd care to be in semideep in bigger buyin tournies. I just moved to the table a few hands ago and have no reads on anyone. I have trouble playing midpairs.....especially 88 and 99 from early position. I have about 24bb so I raise it up but the guy thinks about it for about 10 seconds and then jams. I am not familiar with this player at all and this situation frustrates the hell out of me so I'm curious what other people would do in this spot.

    pokerstars Game #19340895560: Tournament #98286803 $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2008/08/03 - 22:17:21 (ET)
    Table '98286803 58' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
    Seat 1: BuklaH (59451 in chips)
    Seat 2: jezuus (36462 in chips)
    Seat 3: aconsuma (38522 in chips)
    Seat 4: ASPoker8 (62163 in chips)
    Seat 5: cool0813 (9807 in chips)
    Seat 6: Tiltaren (9999 in chips)
    Seat 7: BWFCLEE (31795 in chips)
    Seat 9: bigusrickus (76915 in chips)
    BuklaH: posts the ante 150
    jezuus: posts the ante 150
    aconsuma : posts the ante 150
    ASPoker8: posts the ante 150
    cool0813: posts the ante 150
    Tiltaren: posts the ante 150
    BWFCLEE: posts the ante 150
    bigusrickus: posts the ante 150
    bigusrickus: posts small blind 800
    BuklaH: posts big blind 1600

    Holecards:
    Dealt to aconsuma [ ]
    FOLD jezuus
    RAISE aconsuma , 2400 to 4000
    FOLD ASPoker8
    FOLD cool0813
    FOLD Tiltaren
    FOLD BWFCLEE
    FOLD bigusrickus
    RAISE BuklaH, 55301 to 59301 and is all-in
  2. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,988
    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 4:03am) in reply to aconsuma

    with no reads I feel confident folding 99 and 88 in this spot.. and stick it in with 1010+,AK prob vs most opponents.
     21
  3. SS-TP SS-TP is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 609
    Joined: Feb 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 4:15am) in reply to rock3656

    fold

    his range is like 1010 + Aq and that may be on the loose end
    194 
  4. annodv annodv is offline

    Plymouth
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 2,192
    Joined: Mar 05

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 7:14am) in reply to SS-TP

    yea i fold here.

    alternate situation u raise and he calls and flop is KJT do you check fold or c bet?

    i find c bet works only 50%ish time on those flops
     
  5. andersd andersd is offline

    Linköping
    Sweden

    Posts: 242
    Joined: Jul 07

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 7:43am) in reply to annodv

    I'm only a micro stakes player but my experience lately is that it's more worth limping early pos with hands like that. You might even get more credit for having a good hand by doing that then raising. But then again at your stakes maybe it's not that good of a play.

    Just my thoughts.
  6. Duffy08 Duffy08 is offline

    KS
    United States

    Posts: 3,182
    Joined: Jun 07

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 7:47am) in reply to andersd

     
    Originally Posted by andersd View Post

    I'm only a micro stakes player but my experience lately is that it's more worth limping early pos with hands like that. You might even get more credit for having a good hand by doing that then raising. But then again at your stakes maybe it's not that good of a play.

    Just my thoughts.

    he raised because he's raising A,K and Jacks and shit the same way, so he does it with 99, makes people uncertain

    if he's limping A<K and jacks and shit, then he should be limping 99 as well.

    If you're running well, call, if you're playing good poker with good decisions, FOLD. It's a sunday though, got to win like a million hands like this to win the moniez so who knows
     1
  7. aconsuma aconsuma is offline

    Posts: 309
    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 4:53pm) in reply to Duffy08

    yeah i've thought about limping before but i raise everything so limping becomes transparent if i play with people enough. If I limp and someone jams then I could make a hero call but then why not just raise call? Also its tough to play a q104 flop if other people limp behind so I'm essentially set mining, thus losing value on a descent pair. If I do get called then I can still c bet or c/r to take down the pot but when he jams its just a "simple" call or fold.

    I've also thought about just making those hero calls in these situations in order to "go for the win" and win a big race or in bad situations just suck out. This has happened to me a few times with 88 and 99 and my stack size is enough so that I can fold and wait for a better spot with 20bb, but when blinds go up and my stack shrinks if i don't play a hand the pressure can add up to make a move. At this time I'm also around avg in the tourney so is this just one of those times where i gamble it up and go for it? I do know that every time I've folded in this situation I haven't gone deep.

    I think this is a tough situation that a lot of people have to face deep in a tourney so more input would be appreciated.
    Thread Starter
  8. aconsuma aconsuma is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 4:54pm) in reply to aconsuma

    Oh and the guy didn't limp......he was in the bb i think. I was utg+1..raised....folds he thinks for 10 secs then jams. Does the fact that he thought about it as opposed to insta jamming affect my decision?
    Thread Starter
  9. drood drood is offline

    Brantford
    Canada

    Posts: 58
    Joined: Oct 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 5:32pm) in reply to aconsuma

    Im not sure what i do vs unkown opponent probably lay it down here but FWIW ive played cash games with buklah a lot both online and some live and hes quite the maniac i prob call and lose to KJo.
     
  10. Mkind16 Mkind16 is offline

    Manalapan, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 5,381
    Joined: Aug 05

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 5:53pm) in reply to aconsuma

    This is easy: just put him on the A and the K, and own his soul!
    1
  11. aconsuma aconsuma is offline

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    Joined: Jul 06

    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 6:07pm) in reply to drood

    I put it into pokerstove and this is what i got giving him the range 77+ and aqo+ its about a 45% chance to win

    equity win tie pots won pots tied

    Hand 0: 44.548% 43.69% 00.86% 336649656 6608946.00 { 99 }

    Hand 1: 55.452% 54.59% 00.86% 420669252 6608946.00 { 77+, AQs+, AQo+ }

    If i change the range to 1010+ and aqo+ its basically 37% chance to win

    equity win tie pots won pots tied

    Hand 0: 37.260% 37.06% 00.20% 236051700 1286694.00 { 99 }

    Hand 1: 62.740% 62.54% 00.20% 398352000 1286694.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

    The question is if he's flatting with aqss and aqo and mid pairs....which is tough vs some random. I don't know...maybe db him real fast and see if he's a donk?
    Thread Starter
  12. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Aug 4th, 2008 (8/4/2008 6:19pm) in reply to aconsuma

    pretty sure he's not flatting AQ out of the bb here. this is read dependent here. is he aggressive? has he played a lot of pots? has he re-shoved before? was it this large of a re-shove? what about when he had a big hand? did he try to trap, did he play it fast? these are the things you should be paying attention to and hopefully have picked up on some reads. with no reads i fold this 100% of the time.
    170 2 

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