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Ranked player says people will laugh at me over hand EDIT results at end

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  1. Sakalicious Sakalicious is offline

    Cheyenne, WY
    United States

    Posts: 124
    Joined: Apr 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:09am)

    This hand comes from a $109 freezeout on stars. What do you do? Supposedly I will get laughed at...which definitly could be true. Call or fold?

    Seat 1: Shakey71 (7803 in chips)
    Seat 2: Sakalicious (9405 in chips)
    Seat 3: Dublgutshot (7530 in chips)
    Seat 4: jjnajde27 (13550 in chips)
    Seat 5: Aboudizm (7473 in chips)
    Seat 6: Uncle LG (8330 in chips)
    Seat 7: castellimich (9447 in chips)
    Seat 9: SiVTEC (4207 in chips)
    Shakey71: posts the ante 25
    Sakalicious: posts the ante 25
    Dublgutshot: posts the ante 25
    jjnajde27: posts the ante 25
    Aboudizm: posts the ante 25
    Uncle LG: posts the ante 25
    castellimich: posts the ante 25
    SiVTEC: posts the ante 25
    Aboudizm: posts small blind 200
    Uncle LG: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Sakalicious [Jd Qc]
    castellimich: folds
    GPLAYMAN is connected
    SiVTEC: folds
    Shakey71: folds
    Sakalicious: raises 725 to 1125
    Dublgutshot: folds
    jjnajde27: calls 1125
    Aboudizm: calls 925
    Uncle LG: folds
    *** FLOP *** [2h Qd 7c]
    Aboudizm: checks
    Sakalicious: bets 2150
    jjnajde27: raises 10250 to 12400 and is all-in
    Aboudizm: folds
    Sakalicious ?????
  2. threeven threeven is offline

    Tucson, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 18,612
    Joined: Feb 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:11am) in reply to Sakalicious

    tough spot but you rly arent beating muych
    2
  3. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 12,401
    Joined: Dec 05

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:13am) in reply to threeven

    maybe this is why u should jsut fold QJ pre

    idk?
  4. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 14,381
    Joined: Mar 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:14am) in reply to Sakalicious

    I dont think your deep enough to play this type of hand pre-flop. Your going to fold after putting in 1/3 of your stack already? Man up call get stacked and learn.
  5. Brian Lerner Brian Lerner is offline

    Fishers, IN
    United States

    Posts: 466
    Joined: Feb 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:16am) in reply to Sakalicious

    i think i fold... but what did the "ranked" player tell you was the right move?
  6. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

    Posts: 14,381
    Joined: Mar 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:18am) in reply to Brian Lerner

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><H2>Cmoney3</H2></TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Fold Pre FTW
  7. spectrefax spectrefax is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

    Posts: 1,184
    Joined: Jan 07

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:19am) in reply to Sakalicious

    The call is read dependant IMO. Alot of the guys in the 109 freezes are the most braindead gamblers on pokerstars. If he's a nit I fold, if he's been playing alot of pots I snap call and beat his 9-9 or Q-8 sooted.
     
  8. spectrefax spectrefax is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

    Posts: 1,184
    Joined: Jan 07

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:22am) in reply to spectrefax

    I rest my case about the donks in the 109 freezes

    pokerstars Game #13935415172: Tournament #70445312, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/12/18 - 01:19:30 (ET)
    Table '70445312 20' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: star_agent (2370 in chips)
    Seat 2: jirkman69 (2985 in chips)
    Seat 3: mangy71 (3125 in chips)
    Seat 4: BUDTIME (3320 in chips)
    Seat 5: spectrefax (3170 in chips)
    Seat 6: red robb (2640 in chips)
    Seat 7: lion723 (2120 in chips)
    Seat 8: spyroni (7150 in chips)
    Seat 9: bgmula (2990 in chips)
    mangy71: posts small blind 15
    BUDTIME: posts big blind 30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to spectrefax [Qs 6d]
    spectrefax: folds
    red robb: calls 30
    lion723: calls 30
    spyroni: calls 30
    bgmula: folds
    star_agent: folds
    jirkman69: calls 30
    mangy71: calls 15
    BUDTIME: raises 120 to 150
    red robb: calls 120
    lion723: calls 120
    spyroni: calls 120
    jirkman69: calls 120
    mangy71: folds
    *** FLOP *** [2c 6c 9h]
    BUDTIME said, "callin stations"
    BUDTIME: bets 3170 and is all-in
    red robb: folds
    lion723: folds
    spyroni: calls 3170
    jirkman69: folds
    bgmula is disconnected
    *** TURN *** [2c 6c 9h] [7d]
    *** RIVER *** [2c 6c 9h 7d] [4d]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    BUDTIME: shows [Jd Ac] (high card Ace)
    spyroni: shows [Qc Tc] (high card Queen)
    BUDTIME collected 7120 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 7120 | Rake 0
    Board [2c 6c 9h 7d 4d]
    Seat 1: star_agent folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: jirkman69 (button) folded on the Flop
    Seat 3: mangy71 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: BUDTIME (big blind) showed [Jd Ac] and won (7120) with high card Ace
    Seat 5: spectrefax folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: red robb folded on the Flop
    Seat 7: lion723 folded on the Flop
    Seat 8: spyroni showed [Qc Tc] and lost with high card Queen
    Seat 9: bgmula folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     
  9. Roark21 Roark21 is offline

    PA
    United States

    Posts: 221
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:24am) in reply to spectrefax

    Actually he either turns the 9 or rivers the 8 so you would end up losing... at least you would have gotten in as a favorite. =)
  10. FreerollMike FreerollMike is offline

    Clarkston, MI
    United States

    Posts: 106
    Joined: Aug 07

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:27am) in reply to Sakalicious

    AFink summed it up the best. As played, I probably call, but I don't like it one bit.
  11. SerlinSteak19 SerlinSteak19 is offline

    Brooklyn, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,566
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 12:30am) in reply to Sakalicious

    At that point in the hand you need past information to confidently make your decision. From what I see I don't see him scaring you off on that kind of board with a set or AQ. After all if he had AQ or KQ I would think he'd be aggressive and raise the button with his stack. Unless you know he's a player that instantly shoves a monster I would suggest calling.
  12. heynow21 heynow21 is offline

    Kansas, OK
    United States

    Posts: 3,032
    Joined: Mar 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 1:56am) in reply to spectrefax

    Omg spectre, this looks suspiciously like a bad beat whine post.
     
  13. spectrefax spectrefax is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 3:58am) in reply to heynow21

    I wasn't even in the hand. Learn to read plz.
     
  14. King Acehole King Acehole is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 206
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 4:05am) in reply to Sakalicious

    Raise with junk, commit a third of your chips when you hit a huge flop and then fold? Were you trying for 2 pair or better? Call.
     
  15. OGPokerman OGPokerman is offline

    La Quinta, CA
    United States

    Posts: 6,921
    Joined: Jul 05

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 4:56am) in reply to King Acehole

    Id say with this hand he is hoping for a straight or two pair yes. Who plays QJ to hit top pair at this level?

    Its like calling a raise with AT and hoping you hit your ace....lol....

    What did u do OP...we are waiting and waiting sucks
     
  16. OGPokerman OGPokerman is offline

    La Quinta, CA
    United States

    Posts: 6,921
    Joined: Jul 05

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 5:07am) in reply to OGPokerman

    but others say, if your dumb enough to play AT and hit the ace...are u really gonna fold when u hit one?
     
  17. Zpaceman Zpaceman is offline

    Spain

    Posts: 1,229
    Joined: Aug 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 6:42am) in reply to Sakalicious

    Very much dependent on how you perceive the player. Normally the first thing i do is put myself in my opponents spot and ask myself why would i make that shove. There are no draws, you opened from MP preflop, got called in position, put out a typical c-bet and have enough left behind to fold. If he has AQ, KQ, 77, 22, AA or KK here why does he want to shove you out? Only a bad player "protecting his hand" would do that. A good player would try to get more value out of one of those hands unless he's trying a reverse tell to get you to think that way and pay off his bigger hand, but that seems pretty unlikely. So shoving shows a lot of weakness, unless (a) he is a bad player who doesn't know how to get value out of his hand or (b) he is a very good player who is shoving a big hand for deception.

    If you really have no reads on this player then i think this is a call most of the time. Maybe i'll get laughed at too, lol.
     
  18. dicko999111 dicko999111 is offline

    Leeds
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 250
    Joined: Oct 06

    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 7:37am) in reply to Zpaceman

    if my maths is tight theres about 13000 in the pot ang it will cost u the rest of yr chips about 5'5k to call, so yr getting well over 2/1 to call. i agree with Z thats its probably about 50/50 that yr either crushed or a mile aead. Even allowing for the times that you get it in ahead at this point and he suck out on you i still think its s call. (unless u have a good read on this player.)

    Whatever i'm not sure that you'll be laughed at, u call and win= genuis call and lose = donkey thats life.

    If you consider that yr a significantly better player than the others in this tourney then sklansky would argue that its a definite fold.. dont race for your tourney life because a s abetter player its worth more than thiers.

    You pays yr money and takes yr choice.

    Not sure that playing them given yr position was a terrible mistake either, only looks it now as yr in this tuff position. Although prettymuch everyone who replied is a better player than me!

    Dicko
  19. jackaaron jackaaron is offline

    Mansfield, OH
    United States

    Posts: 2,653
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 7:55am) in reply to dicko999111

    I'd snap fold because I'm not a good player. I need all the chips I can hold on to.

    But, you're a very good player, and you should call if you're on the fence because the times that you win the pot you become table chip leader, and I'm 10x, no....100x sure that you can better use your new found chips than I can (or even your average break even player).

    I know dicko mentioned that Sklansky thinks you should fold if you're better than the others...but there is another school of thought that says the more skill you have, the more you should make calls like this because of your ability to use your big stack to more of an advantage than a less skilled person with the same stack. (Chip Utility?)

    The idea is that with so much M, you have so many more ways to make chips. But, if you're at around 10, you can't do as much, and eventually people get down to push/fold which is the easiest stack by far to play since you really only have two decisions and you can hardly fk that up (I can maybe, but most others can't).

    Am I way off?
  20. Largadon Largadon is offline

    Quebec
    Canada

    Posts: 1,099
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:21am) in reply to Cmoney3

    Isn't it a bit weak to open fold QJ from the hijack with a decent stack?
  21. durk86 durk86 is offline

    Monmouth, IL
    United States

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:31am) in reply to Zpaceman

    I think Zpaceman hit it on the head here. smells like 88ish type hand trying to take the pot away
  22. Camz Camz is offline

    Lafayette, LA
    United States

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:32am) in reply to heynow21

    lol if you're going to try and hate on someone, at least read the HH correctly
  23. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:33am) in reply to Largadon

    Its not that decent of a Stack Laragdon IMO..
  24. mariachiinc mariachiinc is offline

    Edmonton
    Canada

    Posts: 54
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:36am) in reply to Sakalicious

    I really don't mind the raise pf. I wouldn't recommend it every time, but occassionally ya. As played I'd make the crying call here...
     
  25. TheWacoKidd TheWacoKidd is offline haters gonna hate

    Posts: 37,473
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:37am) in reply to Sakalicious

    if you are planning on bet/calling here, you should go for the check raise IMO...

    as played it is a difficult call, but you already have about 35% of your stack in, so I prolly make a crying call here and hope he doesn't have KQ
     1
  26. busto_soon busto_soon is offline

    Groningen
    Netherlands

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:45am) in reply to Sakalicious

    If you're thinking about b/f, check. Fold pre is probably best given stacks.
    269 3
  27. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
    United States

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 9:47am) in reply to Sakalicious

    Raise in C/O-1 into an unopened pot isn't a bad move, really. Not a bad spot to attempt to take the blinde and antes.

    Tough spot to call the all-in with Q-J though. A-Q, K-Q, Q-2, Q-7, 2-2, 7-7, 7-2 (lol), KK, and AA have you beat at the moment (bold hands are most likely). With no str8 draw or flush draw, you're drawing to 5 cards (assuming all live) if you're behind right now and only 3 outs if you're dominated by AQ or KQ.

    It would also depend on the style of play that you've seen from jjnajde, but I'd be inclined to fold. Question is...do you want to risk your tournament on top pair with an iffy kicker?
  28. JKamikazeKid JKamikazeKid is offline

    Dayton, OH
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 10:00am) in reply to Zpaceman

    Z, I agree with needing to know how you perceive the player. In this case, if I was villain, I would think of the following:

    1. Weak hand (ie: 8-8): flat call turn to see if I can hit my set. Fold if it doesn't come on the turn if hero leads out again.

    2. Monster hand (ie: 7-7, 2-2). min-raise and hope the hero shoves all-in. I'd only shove if I was behind in chips if I held monsters like this.

    **Another note: If villain had QQ, KK, or AA, there's no way he would let this hand get to the flop without an all-in, so I'd rule these 3 hands out immed. He needed to see a flop.

    A-Q, 7-7, or 2-2 seem like the only realistic 3 hands he has that have me beat. Otherwise, I would think that QJ is a monster favorite here. Personally, still a tough call for me thou.
  29. bluefin bluefin is offline

    Apo, AE
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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 10:09am) in reply to Sakalicious

    I would call. Huge over bet to me says weakness and wants you out of the hand.
  30. wmmcl wmmcl is offline

    Greenville, SC
    United States

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    Dec 18th, 2007 (12/18/2007 10:16am) in reply to bluefin

    I think its a call because of your stack size...I'm curious why some are advocating an open fold here. if QJ isn't in your raising range here, what is? I sure as hell open with QJ in this spot
     
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