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Re buy quiz

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  1. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 1:47pm)

    Suppose you're playing in a re-buy (exlude add ons for now ) and you expect the average player to re-buy twice . If your Roi is 100 % given a regular non re-buy mtt structure , is it correct to re-buy

    A) At least 8 times

    B) Exactly 6 times

    c) No more than 4 times

    D) Never re-buy

    E) It depends .
  2. macleod51 macleod51 is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 1:48pm) in reply to jay_shark

    I was taught in college that the answer to every questions is, "It Depends".

    So I'm going to have to go with E).

    I think I'm wrong though.
  3. RoyalCrusher RoyalCrusher is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 1:50pm) in reply to jay_shark

    F) rebuy at start. open push 45o+ till 20k. chill till addon. addon. stack fish till u hit 100k. steal from fish till u hit 250k. repop fish till u hit 1 mil. outplay fish till u win. ship.
     1
  4. KingPariah KingPariah is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 1:55pm) in reply to RoyalCrusher

    damn royal lets move this to the strategy archives lol
  5. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 1:56pm) in reply to KingPariah

    So enlightening :P
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  6. nowicki2005 nowicki2005 is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:06pm) in reply to jay_shark

    im never really sure how to figure out your questions but if everyone rebuys twice, wouldnt you just need to rebuy the same as you believe the average person will rebuy because then everyone will have equal stack sizes?

    anyway, im thinking either D or E
  7. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:12pm) in reply to jay_shark

    If you're better than the average player , you should obviously re-buy more than twice , but a question of interest is where do we draw the line ?

    Are we making a mistake if we re-buy lets say 8 times ?

    One of the deciding factors in answering this question is your relative skill level to the field . If you're an average player then you should never re-buy to begin with because it will decrease your expected profits .

    Here is one way of approaching this problem :

    Lets say your initial buy in is $10 but your stack is really worth $20 . Your ROI is 100 % (exlude rake )

    If you buy in twice , then your first bundle of chips may be worth $20 .

    Your second bundle of chips may be worth $18 .

    Your third bundle of chips may be worth $16 etc .

    This means that we should continue to re-buy until our $10 investment is equal to our incremental expected profit. I'm using the law of diminishing returns here which means that the value of each chip you gain decreases in equity value compared to the previous chip you've earned .
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  8. KingPariah KingPariah is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:13pm) in reply to jay_shark

    But seriously, wouldnt it really depend because its not like players go into a rebuy and say "I'm rebuying 10 times this tournament"...Obviously it reaches a point where you have a negative expected value for the tournament if you rebuy too many times (I suppose this is where you figure in your 100% ROI compared to prizepool and buyin)...I think too much info is missing to know, plus you cant go into it with a certain amount to rebuy, you can only put a cap on how much you will allow yourself to rebuy (okay, if I hit 8 buyins I am done)...so obviously B and A cant be correct because you cant sit down and buyin 6 times in a row, and if you double buyin to start and go on a heater you could have the same result as A.) without buying in 8 times
  9. Jer672 Jer672 is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:15pm) in reply to jay_shark

    if your ROI is 100% then on average you double your investment each tournament. so if you rebuy, you just spent what you usually profit. Now this is a very crude way of doing the math because by rebuying you have a better chance of surviving and thus winning. I would be curious to see rebuy ROI as a function of the number of rebuys for those who play rebuys often and thus have enough tournaments to make this data worth looking at. My initial guess would be c.
  10. xxFMXERxx xxFMXERxx is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:18pm) in reply to nowicki2005

    I'm not sure but that's not exactly true. He said that "on average each player will buy-in twice" not "everyone rebuys twice" therefore the stacks will def not be even...

    I'm gonna go with the off-the-wall answer and pick D) Never rebuy. If the avg player buys in twice then there's twice as much money to be won for your buy-in as compared to a standard MTT. (the straight forward answers are never right with jayshark's questions, =D )

    -----------------

    Quick question: would the answer to this question change if the average player rebought 8 times jayshark?
  11. macleod51 macleod51 is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:19pm) in reply to Jer672

    If your ROI is 100%, wouldn't it be 100% when your rebuy amount = AVG rebuy amount per competitor?
  12. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:21pm) in reply to Jer672

    Jer , that is my guess as well .

    I've used probability approximations at arriving to this conclusion and it isn't too hard to show that re-buying more than 6 or 8 times will reduce your expected profits .
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  13. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:21pm) in reply to macleod51

    Yes Macleod
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  14. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:25pm) in reply to xxFMXERxx

    I have a little formula that I use which is a function of your win rate .

    I will formulate this result another time , but to answer your question , I would guess that you should re-buy no more than 16 times if the average player re-buys 8 times and your roi is 100 % .
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  15. Jer672 Jer672 is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 2:47pm) in reply to jay_shark

    my rationale for choosing c is this...i try to use logic to solve these kinds of problems so see if my reasoning is right.

    Lets say it is a 100R and as you say the average buyin is 2 buyins. Thus, if you buy in for 2 buy ins as well, you should maintain your 100% ROI. So on average you profit 200 bucks per tournament. Therefore, if you buy in 4 times, you spend the 200 bucks that you would have profited and if you buy in any more you should expect to lose that much. I know this reasoning isnt exact but i think it makes sense. I would be curious to see what kind of math you used to get this answer.
  16. Suthereader Suthereader is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 9:18pm) in reply to jay_shark

    The answer is probably E) It depends....If you keep busting out or your stack keeps falling below the minimum then you have to also take into consideration the stacks of the leader....just cause you rebuy doesn't mean you have enough time to amass the chips to catch the tournament leaders...you might have to start playing in a really kamikaze fashion and that could have a really negative expectation on your bankroll...
  17. StIcKyFiNgErS StIcKyFiNgErS is offline

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    Nov 24th, 2006 (11/24/2006 9:32pm) in reply to jay_shark

    BeL0W knows this answer and NEVER waivers from it
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