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  1. Hi Everyone, just busted the Daily $90K on Stars with around 3 tables to go. Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on my line here as played, and whether or not the line i chose maximises the perceived strength of my hand by my opponents. All thoughts would be appreciated thank you.

    pokerstars Game #53177879575: Tournament #341010572, $50+$5 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (4000/8000) - 2010/11/23 20:51:24 ET
    Table '341010572 112' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: Tchuriii !!! (315072 in chips)
    Seat 2: paul1286 (288753 in chips)
    Seat 3: Affrokjell (151958 in chips)
    Seat 4: Picasso 2 (183620 in chips)
    Seat 5: dulcineja (624967 in chips)
    Seat 6: LuckvsSkills (133802 in chips)
    Seat 7: jdtjpoker (277226 in chips)
    Seat 8: Marcotte50 (228524 in chips)
    Tchuriii !!!: posts the ante 800
    paul1286: posts the ante 800
    Affrokjell: posts the ante 800
    Picasso 2: posts the ante 800
    dulcineja: posts the ante 800
    LuckvsSkills: posts the ante 800
    jdtjpoker: posts the ante 800
    Marcotte50: posts the ante 800
    paul1286: posts small blind 4000
    Affrokjell: posts big blind 8000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Picasso 2 [8s As]
    Picasso 2: raises 10000 to 18000
    dulcineja: folds
    LuckvsSkills: folds
    jdtjpoker: folds
    Marcotte50: calls 18000
    Tchuriii !!!: folds
    dulcineja said, "odakle si?"
    paul1286: folds
    Affrokjell: folds
    *** FLOP *** [7s 4c Ks]
    Picasso 2: checks
    dulcineja said, "a lijepo"
    Marcotte50: bets 25000
    Picasso 2: raises 139820 to 164820 and is all-in
    Marcotte50: calls 139820
    *** TURN *** [7s 4c Ks] [Tc]
    *** RIVER *** [7s 4c Ks Tc] [6h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Picasso 2: shows [8s As] (high card Ace)
    Marcotte50: shows [8d 8c] (a pair of Eights)
    Marcotte50 collected 384040 from pot
    Picasso 2 finished the tournament in 32nd place and received $299.16.
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 384040 | Rake 0
    Board [7s 4c Ks Tc 6h]
    Seat 1: Tchuriii !!! (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: paul1286 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: Affrokjell (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: Picasso 2 showed [8s As] and lost with high card Ace
    Seat 5: dulcineja folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: LuckvsSkills folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: jdtjpoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: Marcotte50 showed [8d 8c] and won (384040) with a pair of Eights

    In terms of background information, i had a very tight reputation at the table and had been getting light opens through without very much resistance due to a well built conservative image. I guess in terms of any possible "mistakes" so to speak, it may be fair to say that i should not be opening UTG with this hand considering my stack size (23 bb) ....although is this just the influence of hindsight? Mentally i was attempting to sneak a steal through based on the fact that people were never playing back at me light, especially when raising from early position.

    That being said i was wondering what people think of the line here once we have opened pre-flop and been flatted.....would most people be happy to just lead out on this flop and get it in if we get re-popped? Or is the check shove line an acceptable way to proceed? After considering the hand i felt that my check/shove was perhaps the wrong choice, purely in terms of what i was attempting to represent by chosing this move. Would you guys suppose that if i have KKK, AK, AA i wouldn't usually play it like this? And that check/shoving in fact then looks more like a draw type hand that i indeed am holding? Or could a check raise to say 85k be a better way to attempt to advertise strength?

    On the other side of the coin i feel check/shoving will put my opponent to a difficult decision a large % of the time, my logic being based on the fact that he rarely has a big King in his hand considering his pre-flop flat (would he ever flat AK here with stack sizes?). So we would be putting all pocket pairs to a tough decision (aside from 777/444 for sets on this flop) , plus gaining a little bit of possible value from flop bluffs if he has been splashing around pre-flop with weak holdings?

    I guess what i am asking is which line do you guys prefer....bet/get it in (which may give the chance to double barrel for our whole stack if we get flatted on flop?), or check raise commit. Apologies if i have waffled on here but i think it is an interesting discussion spot and would appreciate any thoughts by you guys on how you would have tackled the hand :) . Cheers and good luck at the tables.

    Pic.
     
  2. Hate your open.

    Like your check shove.

    The rest isn't really too important.
     
  3. Prefer betting small, inducing raise, jamming over top or double barreling...

    apestyles is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  4. Agree with ape, like leading for around 1/4 pot there, induce spaz 3 bet and 4 bet jam.
  5. i prefer leading the flop, with intention to call jam or shove over raise, and as ape said barreling the turn if flatted
  6. Thanks guys. Yeah the more i think about it Ape the more i favour the double barrel, the weak lead to set up a re-jam over the top could definitely be a shout too as looks very strong. I guess when i do risk an open with this stack size i put myself in a difficult situation quite a lot so something to avoid in the future.

    I'm just wondering if you guys think it is ALWAYS horrible to open here? I have been getting differing opinions from the people in my poker inner circle. Like in certain table dynamics, where it is non stop openers pre-flop, its ok to sometimes try and squeeze one through here with an open pre-flop, especially considering our very tight table image? Kinda the intangibles deep in mtts i guess. I definitely don't love the open in general but there are those special sets of circumstances where it can seem to make sense logically? I'm just wondering in terms of what would we do here with AJ/AQ utg if we raise and get re-popped...would often boil down to a raise/fold anyway?

    Just wondering also what we think of his 88 call? Seems very spewy even if he does read us for the hand we are holding....
     
    Thread Starter
  7. i agree w/ OP analysis. you dont have a balanced range w/ the C/S. its pretty transparent what u have unless you do this w/ ur big hands aswell. now the 1/4 pot bet then 4B is better and can be balanced much easier that way /c you dont have to give away free cards w/ a hand like AK here in an attempt to stay balanced.

    i dont know if its horrible but it can work from time to time. idk i saw frankthetank open QJs utg w/ 20bbs in an ftops #1. but it was a really tighttable i recall aswell at 500/1000/100. then again ur not frankthe tank. but no offense, u obv think deeply.
    Edited By: poisoneye1986 Nov 24th, 2010 at 04:45 AM
  8. Good point poison and for sure no offense taken :) . My thought process preflop was that i am rarely ever going to be flatted pre-flop here by a hand like 88....considering stack sizes and image it seems mentally like this will be an easy R/F to a 3 bet or a chance to keep the stack ticking over if it gets through. I suppose this may just be giving too much credit to my opponents at the table. In hindsight i am definitely now favouring the weak lead out on flop to set up a 4 bet jam, with the opportunity to double barrel if we do get flatted on the flop. I think with a 21bb stack remaining i had felt that i wasnt deep enough to execute this play but it now seems there was certainly enough room to do it. Bottom line i suppose just because i didn't think i would be flatted pre doesn't mean that i shouldn't have a better plan of action should that situation arise. I personally feel that most good regs will pass a hand like 88 here as it very rarely looks like i am going to be folding pre to a 3 bet. If i'm gonna get creative here pre i should have a more creative post flop plan than just check shipping....thanks for the feedback.
     
    Thread Starter
  9. yeah looking bk on it ur lines not the strongest people dont give that play to much credit i know myself i wouldnt take that line w a monster like ever tbh .. its tough with ur stack size to play it we dont have much chips to double barrel we dont want to be sticking a good percentage of our chips in the pot then folding we cant afford 2... were just hoping he raises our small flop bet so we can ship his face if we get a flat its intresting the way hes played the hand in general makes me think hes bad and isnt the best player to try and get to fold.... im prob folding pre most times tbh nothing the matter w trying to sneak 1 through now n again...shit happens bink a spade ever? :(
  10. -I mostly fold preflop, but i def don't hate the open.

    how can people "hate" that open ?? i mean, when Daize, Jy or Moorman ships something, i see usually a thread with 3 pages of love, not hate !!


    -After the flop, what Apestyles said, but i think your line is fine too.
     

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