I know wandigo is a reg and is fairly tight/solid. he is probably not raise folding his stack in this spot especially with the sizes behind. I think he open jams the weaker parts of his range some significant % of the time. I know at first this looks like a trivial shove due to how short we are etc but if you actually think about what he is opening to that size with that stack in this spot it becomes alot tougher. what do you do and WHY

pokerstars Game #35415919745: Tournament #219010857, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2009/11/15 21:40:29 ET
Table '219010857 78' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Ocall (3417 in chips)
Seat 2: + to the EV! (20015 in chips)
Seat 3: ZSP-Shark (5736 in chips)
Seat 4: 00psiedaisy (10576 in chips)
Seat 5: joben19 (15385 in chips)
Seat 6: dirkdiggler9 (10478 in chips)
Seat 7: ksmergs (8090 in chips)
Seat 8: wandigo (10083 in chips)
Seat 9: raiderryan78 (6780 in chips)
Ocall: posts the ante 50
+ to the EV!: posts the ante 50
ZSP-Shark: posts the ante 50
00psiedaisy: posts the ante 50
joben19: posts the ante 50
dirkdiggler9: posts the ante 50
ksmergs: posts the ante 50
wandigo: posts the ante 50
raiderryan78: posts the ante 50
joben19: posts small blind 300
dirkdiggler9: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to raiderryan78 [Ah Qd]
ksmergs: folds
wandigo: raises 820 to 1420
raiderryan78: ?????????

it really could be a fold for all the reasons you listed. hes shoving the weaker part of his range like AJ and maybe A10, plus all pairs up to 88? im not sure what pairs he r/c here vs just open shoving. id think 88

definitely an interesting spot, i guess there is a slight chance hes raising his entire range here because his raise just looks soooo strong that he knows people will play back with a pretty small range. i mean youre considering folding AQ here, so if thats his aim, then it works.

what do i do? probably fold because of what you said

kinda tough cuz of his stack size

but still, u have 11 BBs and AQ. im shipping it

why? what range do you guys put him on that makes it ok to shove here? how often is he r/f with that stack? he definitely knows people are going to play back at him with the perfect resteal stacks behind him

 

Originally Posted by Deoxyribo

even if his range is AK, TT+ i still think its a shove

in reality his range is prolly AQ, 99+ so its def a shove

wut

fold OP.

I just can't fold here w/ 11 BBs... although wandigo is a pretty tight player. I still think I go with it tho, what do you think his range is that he is opening here with? It's obv not like AK+, JJ+. If you think that he would just open shove more marginal good hands here, maybe his opening range is like AQ+, 99+.

EDIT: For some reason, I dont see him shoving AJ here preflop, so I think that should def be placed in his range also, wouldn't be shocked seeing him open w/ 88 here also.

yea i dont have pokerstove on my comp =( fkin macs

but with the odds it seems like itd be close no? what range would he need?

 

Originally Posted by stevie444

Exploitablity has exactly 0 relevance in this specific spot.

yah this. im folding here i think.

i shove against belabacsi.

from what ive seen hes too LAG not to

i don´t really know how wandigo is playing since i have never played with em but i wouldn´t assume cause hes a reg that hes r/c 100% of the time.

i guess his opening range is prob a bit wider and since we kinda need to double up and get ourselfe back in buisness i wouldn´t fold.

depends a lil bit when the blinds go up, if they go up within the next 5min then i def would shove..

yeah i think fold here. idk his game though but he's got like 17ish bbs and UTG+1 he either has the same hand or we are beat. Don't think he's r/c w/ AJ here. If he open shoved i feel we pick him off as his range is now weighted to some weaker holdings.

I always shove here but can see the validity of folding, convince me Pikapp!

 

Originally Posted by Drewace34

dnt know wandigo's image but from here say if the assigned range is AJ+ 88+ dont you think ur gettin better equity by goin up against this range than waitin for a better spot with 11bbs? also is 100% hes r/c here? or is that an assumption b/c hes a reg?

seems to me like gambling in this spot could b more optimal than playin a 11 bb stack utg next hand...

edit: fwiw lately seems like opening 12-15bb stacks > shoving 12-15bb stacks is being done cause it appears hella stronger than straight stuffin these stack sizes guess it all depends on what villians metagame level is at

had a very similiar hand against belabasci tonigth at the $10r FT bubble...thought the same shit about how theres no way hes open foldin with his stack here...

Full Tilt Poker Game #16061425377: $15,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (117784683), Table 65 - 5000/10000 Ante 1000 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:00:15 ET - 2009/11/16
Seat 2: DrewAce34 (292,723)
Seat 4: henryfcnlee (165,668)
Seat 5: Belabacsi (183,614)
Seat 6: TwogirlsoneCup (578,132)
Seat 7: Momo Manuva (149,625)
Seat 9: BobbyPossum (98,032)
DrewAce34 antes 1,000
henryfcnlee antes 1,000
Belabacsi antes 1,000
TwogirlsoneCup antes 1,000
Momo Manuva antes 1,000
BobbyPossum antes 1,000
BobbyPossum posts the small blind of 5,000
DrewAce34 posts the big blind of 10,000
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrewAce34 [8s 8d]
henryfcnlee folds
grindtherail (Observer): obviously someone will do it for miniftops
Belabacsi has 15 seconds left to act
Belabacsi raises to 22,500
BobbyPossum: well yeah obv
TwogirlsoneCup has 15 seconds left to act
TwogirlsoneCup has timed out
TwogirlsoneCup folds
TwogirlsoneCup is sitting out
Momo Manuva has 15 seconds left to act
Momo Manuva folds
BobbyPossum folds
TwogirlsoneCup has returned
DrewAce34 has 15 seconds left to act

situations are different, i raise here

 

Originally Posted by stevie444

Exploitablity has exactly 0 relevance in this specific spot.

in the sense that this is 100 FO and the guys don't think about your range?

Half the guys at the table are regs.

Let's say everyone assigns him the range of 10+aq+ and play accordingly. Thus he can raise/fold any two cards profitably. Thus raising just that range is exploitable. It's just a wide version of he only has AA in this spot.

 

Originally Posted by darkhawk-200

in the sense that this is 100 FO and the guys don't think about your range?

Half the guys at the table are regs.

Let's say everyone assigns him the range of 10+aq+ and play accordingly. Thus he can raise/fold any two cards profitably. Thus raising just that range is exploitable. It's just a wide version of he only has AA in this spot.

half the guys in a 100 fo are regs??? o rly