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Reraising After A Limp (Revisited) - Response From Stars - Should I be compensated for their mistake?

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  1. BigHuddy BigHuddy is offline

    Alamo, CA
    United States

    Posts: 129
    Joined: Feb 07

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 4:25am)

    This was an 18 player sit n go. I ended up busting 3rd, on the very next hand, for $21.60. First place gets $43.20. If he was not allowed to reraise I would have more than doubled up and the end result of the tourney might have been different.

    Should I be compensated with a higher prize?

    Response from Stars says he should not have been allowed to reraise.

    pokerstars Game #35927896320: Tournament #216541296, $6.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2009/11/27 14:49:30 ET
    Table '216541296 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 2: tbruce01 (11415 in chips)
    Seat 4: Heldje (1115 in chips)
    Seat 5: Gamma0305 (10945 in chips)
    Seat 8: BigHuddy (3525 in chips)
    tbruce01: posts the ante 50
    Heldje: posts the ante 50
    Gamma0305: posts the ante 50
    BigHuddy: posts the ante 50
    Gamma0305: posts small blind 300
    BigHuddy: posts big blind 600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to BigHuddy [Td 8d]
    tbruce01: calls 600
    Heldje: raises 465 to 1065 and is all-in
    Gamma0305: folds
    BigHuddy: calls 465
    tbruce01: raises 10300 to 11365 and is all-in
    BigHuddy: folds
    Uncalled bet (10300) returned to tbruce01
    *** FLOP *** [Qc Jc 9c]
    *** TURN *** [Qc Jc 9c] [7s]
    *** RIVER *** [Qc Jc 9c 7s] [3h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    tbruce01: shows [Ad As] (a pair of Aces)
    Heldje: shows [Ts Ac] (high card Ace)
    tbruce01 collected 3695 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3695 | Rake 0
    Board [Qc Jc 9c 7s 3h]
    Seat 2: tbruce01 showed [Ad As] and won (3695) with a pair of Aces
    Seat 4: Heldje (button) showed [Ts Ac] and lost with high card Ace
    Seat 5: Gamma0305 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 8: BigHuddy (big blind) folded before Flop

    > Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:48:08 -0500
    > From: support@pokerstars.com
    > Subject: RE: PokerStars Poker Team - Re-Raise Query
    >
    > Hello Nate,
    >
    > I have added an example of this situation.
    >
    > Lets say for example, the blinds in a given hand are 200/400.
    >
    > The action comes around to you and you raise to 2000. Player B then raises
    > to 2458. As this is not a complete raise, he is only able to push all-in for
    > another 458 chips you are not eligible to raise.
    >
    > The reason you can not re-raise this is because you have already acted in
    > the pot. This is a standard poker rule in that, if you have call or raise a
    > pot, and the action is still at the same street, you are not able to
    > re-raise an incomplete raise, you are only able to call, or fold. Only a
    > player that has not yet acted in the pot can re-raise an incomplete bet.
    >
    > I can assure you this is a legitimate rule, that comes into place only if
    > you have already acted in the pot. When the action comes round to you, you
    > can only call or fold. If a player had not yet acted in this pot, when
    > Player B re-raises, the third player would be able to call, fold or raise.
    > Even once he has done this you would still only be able to just call or fold
    > to this player's raise.
    >
    > The key here is whether the person has already acted in the pot, and if they
    > have and there is an incomplete raise; then this player may not re-raise. So
    > in the situation you referenced, if someone limps, then a player goes all-in
    > for less than a complete raise, i.e 1,000 (which is less than 2 times the
    > BB-600). The limper may not re-raise.
    >
    >
    > Please feel free to email support if you have any further questions
    > regarding this matter.
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > SimonD
    > PokerStars Support Team
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----

    > Sent: 2009/11/27 18:31:11
    > To: support@pokerstars.com
    > Subject: reraising after limping
    >
    > >
    > >How much does a player have to raise in order for a limper to reraise? Is
    > it half of the original bet? Or is it equal to the original bet?
    > >
    > >If the blinds are at 300/600 and the player UTG (with a stack of 10K+)
    > limps in. The player behind him goes all in for 1K and some change. I'm in
    > the big blind and I call the extra 400 and change. Can the original limper
    > reraise?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Thanks,
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Nate
     
  2. MYBLUEDOG MYBLUEDOG is offline

    Greenville, MS
    United States

    Posts: 1,999
    Joined: May 07

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 5:55am) in reply to BigHuddy

    It appears you have a case to ask for some compensation since the software allowed an illegal raise.

    You need to reply to the email from SimonD and post your HH and ask for compensation to the next pay level.

    The worst they could say is no, but you might get paid.

    <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
  3. rayspizza rayspizza is offline

    Posts: 1,666
    Joined: Dec 06

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 8:28am) in reply to BigHuddy

    ^ this! Do This
  4. Goal4Ziggy Goal4Ziggy is offline

    Brooklyn, NY
    United States

    Posts: 1,296
    Joined: Jul 06

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 8:50am) in reply to BigHuddy

    On stars, to re-open the raising, the raise has to be of at least HALF the big blind. He raise 465 more which is > 300, therefore he can raise. There was no mistake. Simon D just got it wrong. This rule may be different on other sites, but I know this is how it is on Stars.
  5. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 10:47am) in reply to Goal4Ziggy

    the response from stars is not correct. the way the software works afaik is that if it's more than half of a raise, it re-opens the betting. which is what happened in your example
    170 2 

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  6. annodv annodv is offline

    Plymouth
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 2,192
    Joined: Mar 05

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 11:33am) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    the response from stars is not correct. the way the software works afaik is that if it's more than half of a raise, it re-opens the betting. which is what happened in your example

     
  7. Crazyhorse76 Crazyhorse76 is offline

    Posts: 2,377
    Joined: Nov 05

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 12:17pm) in reply to annodv

    Gags is right, that is the way it is on stars. It needs top be changed though, it's not correct. In tourney play, the raise has to be a complete raise. In cash games, the rules can differ, but in tournies, we need uniform rules, and theirs is wrong.
     2
  8. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 12:18pm) in reply to Crazyhorse76

     
    Originally Posted by Crazyhorse76 View Post

    Gags is right, that is the way it is on stars. It needs top be changed though, it's not correct. In tourney play, the raise has to be a complete raise. In cash games, the rules can differ, but in tournies, we need uniform rules, and theirs is wrong.

    ther'es not 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to rules like this. this particular rule varies from casino to casino.

    the thing that needs to be fixed in tourneys on stars is the button. allowing the bb to skip people is absurd
    170 2 
  9. Crazyhorse76 Crazyhorse76 is offline

    Posts: 2,377
    Joined: Nov 05

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 12:22pm) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    ther'es not 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to rules like this. this particular rule varies from casino to casino.

    the thing that needs to be fixed in tourneys on stars is the button. allowing the bb to skip people is absurd

    Well I know the TDA rule is that it needs to be a full raise, would think these are the rules the sites should be using? But ya, the forward moving button on Stars is ridiculous. But, it is pretty sweet when it happens to you, no? Seriously tho, I've probably been seeing threads complaining about the forward moving button for 3 years or so, hard to believe they haven't fixed it yet.
     2
  10. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

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    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 1:10pm) in reply to BigHuddy

    What am I missing? Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't it that the fake/forced action is on the SB, he is forced to bet the SB (300 here), the BB is forced to raise to 600 (a raise of 300) so the raise amount is 300 after the limper and the allin was a raise of 465 so was more than a full raise and that is why the action can happen like it did.

    And afaik, FullTilt is the same way, have never seen a hand to contradict.
  11. swingset swingset is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 107
    Joined: Jan 05

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 4:09pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    Your wrong but im not going to correct you.
  12. EyeKnows EyeKnows is offline

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    Joined: Sep 06

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 5:05pm) in reply to swingset

     
    Originally Posted by swingset View Post

    Your wrong but im not going to correct you.

    But I said please...
  13. Defjux41 Defjux41 is offline

    Northport, NY
    United States

    Posts: 35
    Joined: Aug 07

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 6:34pm) in reply to EyeKnows

    all u needed to do was see on the screen if there were 3 buttons or 2 for u to act with.

    two buttons would only be fold or call the bet

    three buttons means you could reraise and therefore the betting is still open
  14. Crazyhorse76 Crazyhorse76 is offline

    Posts: 2,377
    Joined: Nov 05

    Nov 29th, 2009 (11/29/2009 6:41pm) in reply to Defjux41

     
    Originally Posted by Defjux41 View Post

    all u needed to do was see on the screen if there were 3 buttons or 2 for u to act with.
    two buttons would only be fold or call the bet

    three buttons means you could reraise and therefore the betting is still open

    No, he was in the BB, so the betting was still open to him, but shouldn't have been to the limper.
     2
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