As you know Stammdog is a very successful high stakes. I don't really have any history with stammdog. Since I've joined the table I really haven't gotten out of line. I'll take suggestions on the flop too. Is 3 bet/calling good on the flop good here this deep. Folding seems pretty nitty. Notice I have the ace of diamonds so he can't have the nut flush draw. And to the river what's the best line. Check/call check/fold bet/call bet/fold. Thanks


pokerstars Game #59648418055: Tournament #413010001, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (125/250) - 2011/03/22 22:46:48 ET
Table '413010001 29' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: ender555 (7100 in chips)
Seat 2: el_klonkador (9969 in chips)
Seat 3: siola (9520 in chips)
Seat 5: The Lag rat (11630 in chips)
Seat 6: papain7 (6545 in chips)
Seat 7: ykings777 (14055 in chips)
Seat 8: maverick570 (4765 in chips)
Seat 9: Stammdogg (17369 in chips)
ender555: posts the ante 30
el_klonkador: posts the ante 30
siola: posts the ante 30
The Lag rat: posts the ante 30
papain7: posts the ante 30
ykings777: posts the ante 30
maverick570: posts the ante 30
Stammdogg: posts the ante 30
el_klonkador: posts small blind 125
siola: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Lag rat [Ah Ad]
The Lag rat: raises 305 to 555
papain7: folds
ykings777: folds
maverick570: folds
Stammdogg: calls 555
ender555: folds
el_klonkador: folds
siola: folds
*** FLOP *** [4d 3d 7h]
The Lag rat: bets 825
Stammdogg: raises 1175 to 2000
The Lag rat: calls 1175
*** TURN *** [4d 3d 7h] [5c]
The Lag rat: checks
deamon10 is connected
Stammdogg: checks
*** RIVER *** [4d 3d 7h 5c] [Kc] Pot 5700ish
The Lag rat:

Weird spot @ the river...

I doubt he'll check back KK on the turn, so not afraid he just rivered us a very high % of the time.... He might have had a hand like 56s and flopped decent and raised for value. Or he might have just random overcards or suited aces as well.

A hand like A5s for example that could definitely raise here and put you in a shitty spot with better/Aces. He'll get so many folds and otherwise he will get a lot of turn/river decisions where he can force you to fold an overpair (for example now, if he would have bet the turn ~60-70% pot....... how hard r u puking?).

To understand his turn check he must have picked up some SD value or expected not to get called by worse and didn't want to get x/r-jammed on the turn there. Your range is pretty face up as TT+ here and he probably doesn't expect you to fold that and he might want to see another 'cheap' river.

Because our range is face up, the river becomes very tough imo. If we donk, we can't really call a jamm since villain can almost play perfectly against our range, which also includes KK. A jamm must be super strong from his part (or at least wanting to look very strong, which would be a sick line w/A5 imo vs a competent villain who can thing before using his 'snap/call bluff catch button'). But checking he will expect us to never really x/f here so when he bets he must have it more often then not, or he'll be leveling us hard.

I think the river should go check/check a ton of the time, but betting doesn't look like its going to get a lot of value. If he bets, I think we should probably fold but in game I would probably x/c......

I'm not sure if this is an issue for you anymore(the being nitty part) but I remember for a fact when I was trying to have it for awhile and being an uber nit. Id get put in these exact spots where my range was pretty much face up and just be leveling the shit out of my self.

Dont really see any value in betting the river but I also hate losing value to his showdown range that just can check back. It really depends I think a lot on what you think he thinks about you, if your ever turning hands into bluffs , floating here or even ck/shoving as bluffs etc. That can be the hardest part some time in these spots, not knowing how much someone else knows about your game and vice versa.

I just don't think you have enough light hands in your range for him to pay you off with anything.... Check/Fold

Good players outplay other good players every day. It's part of the game. We all have bluffed the shit out of each other at one time or another. You can't think badly of it or that you got owned or whatever because it just happens, you get owned and you own even between the same people over and over. But thinking long term it just won't show a profit calling unless you really know a player will go for it that often, and in that case the hand would play a bit differently most likely.

min bet fold the river :)

 

Originally Posted by the_dean22

i agree on getting it in on the flop, i'm torn on sizing/or how to go about it though...cause I am assuming stam probably views you as on the tighter side and not having a 3600/folding range here(esp with ur stack size)...but at the sametime if he does have a flush draw you need to give him room to put it in...especially since you are holding the Ad, there aren't many flush draws that he would be making it 2k/calling ur shove with. had he been holding A5dd for instance,he can easily make it 2k with the intent of calling off all the chips vs. you, knowing u can put in many weaker draws. But if he is holding a hand like 89dd for instance, he can't 3b to 2k and call ur shove, BUT he can easily shove over ur 3600.

r u completely ruling out a set? if so, why?

I wouldve felt more comfortable and probably would have gotten it allin on the flop if I didn't have the ace of diamonds in my hand. Just didn't think I'd get it in good enough with my perceived image here. I ended betting like 2kish on the river and he then put in a huge raise and I folded. I felt like I played the river pretty bad. Do agree that check folding is probably best. Thanks everyone for the replies

i still stand by my min bet fold the river lol

 

Originally Posted by apestyles

Is it wierd that I would've check folded but like bet/calling?

Was thinking that as well actually

 

Originally Posted by amak316

note to self: check raise more flops 40 bets deep people give you absurd respect in mtts these days apparently! I cant imagine any range where you feel uncomfortably getting it in on the flop against a good reg.

I feel like everyone playing online tourneys these days are comfortable slamming 25bbs with 88 utg but completely shut down postflop with anything over 30bbs. Maybe its correct idk and regs are raising flops that tight, I dont play many tournaments, but in my experience with stamm he plays quite well and tricky.

To be fair, 46 effective is fairly different from 30, and hands tend to play different postflop in 1ks than in most other online mtts these days...but you make a valid point otherwise.

 

Originally Posted by apestyles

Is it wierd that I would've check folded but like bet/calling?

I happen to like this line tho

c/ shove

Anyone like bet 875/call?

Also, does stamdogg have aces too or is the title a typo? For a while I thought he had aces too then I realized you coulda just put with aces twice lol

 

Originally Posted by onefingerortwo

if you dont have a 3 bet fold range then shove. you almost certainly have the best hand as most solid regs prolly dont flat 44 or 33 and you are basically just losing to 77 or 56ss which a good reg wont flat that often here either.

um what good reg WOULDNT be flatting 33/44 pre here??? I really don't like getting it in on the flop, especially since we have the ace of diamonds so its hard for Stamdogg to even have a flush draw here. He will just about NEVER be calling a flop shove with worse, and when he does call we're way way behind.

with that said we still want to get to showdown. river just becomes a really sick spot. c/f or b/c are my preferred options and its not every hand you can say that haha. I think ultimately its gotta come down to game flow and how you think Stamdogg perceives you... or how he thinks you think he perceives you :p

 

Originally Posted by Frank1The1Tank

Lol I can't tell if you're serious, but nobody who's winning at high stakes poker calls with 33 or 44 there. And to say stamdogg NEVER calls the flop shove with worse is an extremely absurd statement. He definitely can and will. I still stick by my previous post of not getting it in on flop but your statements are just absolutely ridiculous.

I was completely serious at least about pre. I always go by the 20:1 rule for strictly setmining which is about exactly what Stamdogg's getting here effective. Plus on the button... would you just be folding your low pairs here? and if so how deep would you have to be before you'd consider flatting??

and okay obviously saying he will "never" call with worse on flop is a little absurd, but I truly can't seeing him calling with much that we beat if we just jamball the flop over his raise. Seems like he would be able to find a fold even with 88-JJ, and I would have to think 3betting pre>>>flatting with QQ+ here. certainly don't see him calling with a7 or something.... and we have the blocker to the most likely combo draw.