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river spot vs a Pokerccini overshove

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  1. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 9:39pm)

    pokerstars Game #47124635592: Tournament #322011254, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (20/40) - 2010/07/22 16:17:08 ET
    Table '322011254 6' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: licalzi (3055 in chips)
    Seat 2: csaba333 (2910 in chips)
    Seat 3: SpotLIGHT19 (3030 in chips)
    Seat 4: okse54 (2910 in chips)
    Seat 5: Ainners1979 (2850 in chips)
    Seat 6: ValueH (4261 in chips)
    Seat 7: DHUSTLER15 (3150 in chips)
    Seat 8: Pokerccini (1924 in chips)
    Seat 9: EeeTee2008 (2940 in chips)
    licalzi: posts small blind 20
    csaba333: posts big blind 40
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to okse54 [Qh Ad]
    SpotLIGHT19: folds
    okse54: raises 60 to 100
    Ainners1979: folds
    ValueH: folds
    DHUSTLER15: folds
    Pokerccini: calls 100
    EeeTee2008: folds
    licalzi: calls 80
    csaba333: folds
    *** FLOP *** [4d Tc 6h]
    licalzi: checks
    okse54: checks
    Pokerccini: checks
    *** TURN *** [4d Tc 6h] [Qc]
    licalzi: checks
    okse54: bets 240
    Pokerccini: calls 240
    licalzi: folds
    *** RIVER *** [4d Tc 6h Qc] [8h]
    okse54: checks
    Pokerccini: bets 1584 and is all-in
    okse54: ??????

    i have no idea what he overshoves the river with,

    could it rly be for value? wats he hoping i call with after how i played my hand
     
  2. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

    Storrs Mansfield, CT
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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 9:45pm) in reply to okse54

    Hands he'll be shoving probably includes two clubs, KJ, J9, 75, and sets. I don't like your odds but I'm weak-tight.
  3. TeddyKGB109 TeddyKGB109 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:18pm) in reply to leftygrove

    Well imo he either has a terribly played J9, 2 random clubs, 88, or just air... his line makes close to no sense, which is why I would tend to give a solid player credit for more than 1 pair here early in a well structured tournament.

    Looks like a sigh-fold to me.
     
  4. ApesAreFun ApesAreFun is offline Moderator/Euro Donk

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:23pm) in reply to TeddyKGB109

    Doubt I fold vs ccini....

    EDIT: Doubt I've ever folded vs him ;)
    Edited By: ApesAreFun Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:23 PM
     906 
  5. JokersOnYou JokersOnYou is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:25pm) in reply to ApesAreFun

    I call this all day
     
  6. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:30pm) in reply to JokersOnYou

    Why did you check the river?
    660 1
  7. super plaaayer super plaaayer is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:31pm) in reply to Pghfan987

    bet river
     
  8. okse54 okse54 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:37pm) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    Why did you check the river?

    i checked the river bc i felt alot of his range was made up of draws (or a float) and i wasnt sure how many hands i could get to call a river that im ahead of so i figured my best play was check/call but i didnt expect him to shove and it just confused me.

    thus the post

    should i be leading river? how many hands is he gona pay me off on the river with
     
    Thread Starter
  9. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Jul 22nd, 2010 (7/22/2010 11:38pm) in reply to okse54

     
    Originally Posted by okse54 View Post

    i checked the river bc i felt alot of his range was made up of draws (or a float) and i wasnt sure how many hands i could get to call a river that im ahead of so i figured my best play was check/call but i didnt expect him to shove and it just confused me.

    thus the post

    should i be leading river? how many hands is he gona pay me off on the river with

    You need to learn how to bet/fold hands with showdown value. Defaulting into check/call mode just to get to a showdown is very fishy.
    660 1
  10. cotchery89 cotchery89 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 1:28am) in reply to Pghfan987

    im calling here as played.......definitely betting river....doubt he's floating you very often on the turn here this early....

    hes repping like literally 1 hand....cant really understand y he would even shove it...gotta assume he would think u would v bet most Q's on the riv
    466 
  11. ndahlhoff10 ndahlhoff10 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 1:55am) in reply to cotchery89

    bet/fold river. As played I fold and feel fine about it
     
  12. pjformella pjformella is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 2:02am) in reply to ndahlhoff10

    He's already lost one sousand of his starting stack he's obviously on mega tilt... uhh but I think I still fold.
     
  13. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 5:42am) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    You need to learn how to bet/fold hands with showdown value. Defaulting into check/call mode just to get to a showdown is very fishy.

    lol he gave a perfect reason to check river
     13
  14. Jwilkinson Jwilkinson is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 6:06am) in reply to SCTrojans

    u shoulda been the one shoving the river imo, ez shove
  15. dudlri dudlri is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 8:06am) in reply to leftygrove

     
    Originally Posted by leftygrove View Post

    Hands he'll be shoving probably includes two clubs, KJ, J9, 75, and sets. I don't like your odds but I'm weak-tight.

    fail.

    only hands he's value shoving are 4s and 6s.. possibly 10s.

    edit: is it just me or if he bet river, he's basically turning his hand face up? as long as ccini knows you won't stack off w top top he can profitably shove atc on the river over your tiny valuebet.
    Edited By: dudlri Jul 23rd, 2010 at 08:06 AM
  16. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 8:10am) in reply to dudlri

     
    Originally Posted by dudlri View Post

    as long as ccini knows you won't stack off w top top he can profitably shove atc on the river over your tiny valuebet.

    obv he doesn't know that
    660 1
  17. dudlri dudlri is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 8:31am) in reply to Pghfan987

    if he wasn't high or drunk or anything he's never bluffing here
  18. conch88f conch88f is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 8:43am) in reply to dudlri

    damn this spot is gross looks like a fold

    i doubt hes making a play on u this early and his line for a 75, 97 or 88 doesnt make sense at all. 75 and 97 i doubt he plays even tho hes in position, and theres no way hes floating 88 or possibly think 88 is good on the turn when u bet/ he calls. i assume he could be bluffing here with KJ but this looks like a flopped set. J9,Q10 is possible too but this line just smells like a set of 4s, 6s, or10s to me.

    and i agree with u i think check river is smart option only hand u can really get called by is KQ maybeeee QJ
  19. doubledave22 doubledave22 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 8:46am) in reply to conch88f

    ppl think pokercinni is way crazier than he really is

    id imagine we see J9s here the vast majority
     1
  20. LiquidSw0rd LiquidSw0rd is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 10:11am) in reply to doubledave22

    against that guy my first instinct was to fold, but i think i prefere a call now for obv reasons.



    i do think that pokerccini is good enough to understand that we have pretty much the top of our range holding AQ here, so an over-shove for value doesn't make a lot of sense obv.

    i expect him to have like AJ or KJ of clubs a good % of the time obv. or even AK of clubs that he may have decided to play that way.


    against a good laggy or a middle to high stakes good cash villain i think it becomes an easy call, but i don't put pokerccini in this cathergory obv.
    Edited By: LiquidSw0rd Jul 23rd, 2010 at 10:15 AM
     
  21. Arizona Bay Arizona Bay is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 10:53am) in reply to doubledave22

    I generally don't like his sizing if it is a value bet. You have the very top of your range and you still can't call imo. If he is bluffing I think it works a vast majority of the time vs the range you're likely to have so he can obv be making a play but I just can't imagine being good often enough to justify a call.
  22. matze_widi matze_widi is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 11:44am) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

    You need to learn how to bet/fold hands with showdown value. Defaulting into check/call mode just to get to a showdown is very fishy.

    u dont need to always bet/fold if there are few hands that call u and still loose to our AQ, why not induce a bluff from busted draws???
     
  23. LiquidSw0rd LiquidSw0rd is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 11:56am) in reply to matze_widi

    if i call this river and loose ill feel fine about it, but if i tank/fold and then he shows AJ of clubs to the table i think i stop poker lol
     
  24. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 12:31pm) in reply to Arizona Bay

     
    Originally Posted by Arizona Bay View Post

    I generally don't like his sizing if it is a value bet. You have the very top of your range and you still can't call imo. If he is bluffing I think it works a vast majority of the time vs the range you're likely to have so he can obv be making a play but I just can't imagine being good often enough to justify a call.

    It's pretty simple iyam. Pokerccini has a big hand and figures OP is a random and is either bluffcatching or not, regardless of his bet sizing. So he jams a monster and hopes for a call.
    660 1
  25. LiquidSw0rd LiquidSw0rd is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 12:54pm) in reply to Pghfan987

    that would be pretty wrong to think that ppl will react the same way regardless of the bet sizing here. just sayin'
     
  26. m_hawk_1 m_hawk_1 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 4:20pm) in reply to LiquidSw0rd

    Top top < Pokerccini's values hove range here. He has more value in his range here than bluffs. Fold imo.
    471 
  27. 33mikemcg 33mikemcg is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 4:44pm) in reply to m_hawk_1

    I would have bet the river. As played I prolly sigh and lay it down. I expect he has a str8 here most of the time.
     
  28. The Spewtard The Spewtard is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 4:48pm) in reply to m_hawk_1

    I like bet/folding the river here. As played, I fold.
    770 2
  29. bbbbb33 bbbbb33 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 5:05pm) in reply to doubledave22

     
    Originally Posted by doubledave22 View Post

    ppl think pokercinni is way crazier than he really is

    id imagine we see J9s here the vast majority

    not sure we see J9 as much as other hands that beat us. but the first comment is way true.

    im torn between bet/f the river... both have their merits imo.
     1
  30. benwa1 benwa1 is offline

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    Jul 23rd, 2010 (7/23/2010 5:21pm) in reply to The Spewtard

     
    Originally Posted by The Spewtard View Post

    I like bet/folding the river here. As played, I fold.

    agreed
    504 1
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