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Rules Question from a 2/5 Hand I Played

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  1. TheOx777 TheOx777 is offline

    Columbus, OH
    United States

    Posts: 120
    Joined: May 06

    Jun 21st, 2007 (6/21/2007 5:30pm)

    This situation arose when I was playing at a nearby casino last night. I'm dealt J-10 in the BB, 6 limpers. Table had been playing loose and passive, save for an Aggrodonk 5 spots to my left who made it $100 to go preflop numerous times with no prior preflop raises, for instance. Flop comes J-J-2 rainbow. I'd been playing pretty tight to that point and thought a bet would scare people away, so I check. Noobie to my left bets $15 into the $35-ish pot, folds to Aggro-donk, he calls, folds to me, I call. Turn is a 4, still rainbow, I check, Noob makes it $40, Aggrodonk raises to $100 (big surprise), I do some acting and smooth call, Noob goes all-in for $40 more, Aggrodonk calls, I call. River is a 6. This is where it gets interesting.

    I check to Aggrodonk, relatively confident that he'll bet and I can push in for my remaining $250. Literally AS I'm checking, Noob for some reason thinks the hand is over and flips over his cards, showing J-6 for the rivered boat. I see his cards, and those of us right by him tell him the hand isn't over and he flips them back over. I'm not sure whether Aggrodonk saw the cards. Aggrodonk then says, and I quote, "I put you all-in. How much do you got?" I then ask Aggrodonk, "Did you see his cards?" I asked this for two reasons: first, because cards had been exposed and that would obviously affect his decision, and second, because I wanted some info on the off chance Aggodonk actually had a smaller boat and wanted to get some $ from the only person he could beat. Aggrodonk must think I'm just just trying to get him to check, and says again, "I put you all in, what do you have?" I'm 90% sure I'm calling at this point, and I count out my chips as I think back through some of his earlier hands.

    I'm thinking/counting for no more than 5 seconds when someone not in the hand calls the Floor and summarizes the hand as, "Noob exposed his cards and Ox saw them but Aggrodonk didn't before deciding to bet." I then told Floor that I tried to let Aggrodonk know the cards had been exposed but that Aggrodonk repeated his bet. Aggrodonk says, "I said IF I put you all-in, how much do you have?" I reply, "No, you didn't, you said, I PUT you all-in, how much do you have?" Aggrodonk drops the F-bomb and starts swearing at me. Floor then says, "Well, since it wasn't fair that you saw the cards and he didn't, he doesn't have to bet." I protest, repeating to Floor that I tried to let him know, but to no avail. Aggrodonk now realizes I was planning to call and checks instead. (Yeah real f'in smart buddy, try to bluff out the only person you can win money from at that point.) No side pot, main pot goes to Noob. I'm tempted to suggest the whole hand be cancelled because it was Noob's fault to begin with, but Noob was one of the simplest, most good-natured guys I'd ever played with and my girly side won out.

    So my question: aside from the fact that someone not in the hand called Floor over and summarized the situation, what's the rule here? What happens when cards are exposed, one guy doesn't see, other guy tries to let him know they were exposed, but guy then makes his bet anyways?
  2. hooksindahole hooksindahole is offline

    Seattle, WA
    United States

    Posts: 124
    Joined: Jan 07

    Jun 21st, 2007 (6/21/2007 6:01pm) in reply to TheOx777

    Being a floor myself, any time cards are exposed b4 the showdown in my casino or at any of the big casinos around here (seattle area) during live play, the hand is declared dead.

    Also, the player who called the floor should have just shut his damn mouth and let the dealer explain the situation. When the floor is called onyl the dealer should be the one talking to explain the situation. When other players but in, I tell them all to be quiet and just listen to the dealer cuz he is usally the only one really following the action.
  3. SoNorCal88 SoNorCal88 is offline

    Dubai
    United Arab Emirates

    Posts: 189
    Joined: May 07

    Jun 21st, 2007 (6/21/2007 6:21pm) in reply to hooksindahole

    Why would he bluff a dry sidepot? Is he that big of a donk?
  4. TheOx777 TheOx777 is offline

    Columbus, OH
    United States

    Posts: 120
    Joined: May 06

    Jun 22nd, 2007 (6/22/2007 11:31am) in reply to hooksindahole

    Thanks for the response, I think this result makes the most sense to me. Since I acted before seeing the exposed cards, the other guy potentially has the chance to act based on information I didn't have before making my decision. I'm still not entirely sold on the idea that he should be allowed to retract his bet when I tried to let him know that the cards had been exposed. But your way of doing things definitely seems fair to me.
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  5. TheOx777 TheOx777 is offline

    Columbus, OH
    United States

    Posts: 120
    Joined: May 06

    Jun 22nd, 2007 (6/22/2007 11:33am) in reply to SoNorCal88

    Yeah, he really was. Just unthinkingly aggressive. I suppose there's a chance he thought Noob didn't have a Jack, and that by pushing me out he might have a chance to win the main pot. But I believe it was clear to everyone at the table that Noob had trips or better. Either way, he really was that big of a donk.
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