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Running deep and coin flips

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  1. leeroydafish leeroydafish is offline

    Melbourne
    Australia

    Posts: 80
    Joined: May 11

    Jun 24th, 2011 (6/24/2011 1:17am)

    Hey guys,

    Would love to hear some advice on running deep and your philosophies.

    I have been a break even player for a long time and over the last 6 months finished reading 7 or so books and have ironed out a number of leaks in my game. As such, I have been running deep more frequently and final tabling a few of the $10k $50 buyins on Full Tilt.

    Usually I'm having to grind a little hard and play very conservatively to get these 5th to 9th type finishes.
    I'm beginning to wonder if I'm playing a little tight round the bubble and avoiding flips which might put me in a stronger position to chip up and push for a top stack. I by far prefer to be an aggressor at the table with a good stack, so playing tighter is very much a challenge for me but something I'm beginning to get better at.

    The question at hand is at what stage should I be looking to double and risk it all for a big stack.

    A good example would be this:

    300 field size
    Just got into the money with 20bb and sitting say 15th out of 30 left.

    Should I be looking to hammer forward and race for stacks with AK facing an early position raise by a similar size stack who is playing typically (neither too loose or tight) and I'm likely to close out the betting by shoving? Or am I a little better to call and hope to hit the flop?

    Late position raise I'm obv shoving with them holding a wider range, but it's the early type position raises I struggle with at the moment and usually take the conservative route and call / fold. Is this a mistake?

    Cheers
    Leeroy
  2. takedown takedown is offline

    North Hollywood, CA
    United States

    Posts: 40
    Joined: Jul 07

    Jun 24th, 2011 (6/24/2011 4:23am) in reply to leeroydafish

    Short answer is that you should be reshipping less then ak with 15-20bb and look to pick up these pots without a flop.

    I'd recommend joining a training site and watch how the pros play stack sizes and incorporate that into your game. There are so many reship spots through tournaments that you'll pick up a lot of chips easily. I haven't read many books that talk about these spots so the best way to learn them is to watch vids and practice practice practice. You have to win the flips and 60/40 to win tournaments, late in a tournament where all the money is at the top it's best to be putting the pressure on against the openers and if you happen to have to flip it's expected.

    If you also play live you'll be amazed how well the reship works, people hate calling off 13bb-25bb without a premium hand and will even happily fold aq, jj and ak.

    Gl.
  3. aussie334 aussie334 is offline

    Newcastle
    Australia

    Posts: 66
    Joined: Jun 11

    Jun 24th, 2011 (6/24/2011 5:13am) in reply to takedown

    i would say and i play smaller stakes than you so take my advice or not but with that stack you should be trying to get your chips in the middle in heads up pots with small medium pairs 66-99 if your oop just fold if you dont want to get it all in and if you pick up 10 10 or better i would say just shove if your up against one opponent never just call 3x raises fold or shove, if the button on your big blind is not that deep and he keeps raising you shove over the top with some matginal hands a good way to pick up chips and if he does call who cares not much prize money diff between 30 th and 12th usually you want a decent stack around the final table bubble to punish the short stacks.
    Edited By: aussie334 Jun 24th, 2011 at 05:15 AM
  4. wickedfamous wickedfamous is offline

    Vancouver, WA
    United States

    Posts: 279
    Joined: Apr 11

    Jun 24th, 2011 (6/24/2011 6:17am) in reply to Flopnuts1

    I generally try to avoid coinflips, but in a spot such as 15th stack of 30 remaining players, you need to recognize (and play according to) your own goals. You should also be trying to figure out the goals of others around you. Exploiting the bubble is criticle to making deep runs in MTTs. With AK specifically, I'm not folding unless there are multiple shoves ahead of me.
  5. donkiman donkiman is offline

    Posts: 1,334
    Joined: Aug 10

    Jun 24th, 2011 (6/24/2011 6:26am) in reply to wickedfamous

    Your going to get an array of responses in this thread, but its definitely a topic that we have all thought a lot about. In the scenario that you described I think looking for fold equity situations will be huge. With less than 20 blinds at that stage in the tournament I would be looking for spots to 3bet shove pairs and big aces to get a stack to work with. The tables tend to tighten up at that point so having a stack that you can afford to raise/fold is very important... I mean you could raise/fold the 15-20bb stack on merge, but on ftp or stars this will do more damage than good. Really playing towards a top 3 finish should be your goal. A 1st-3rd place and a mincash pays more than 2 8th place finishes.
     
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