What's up everyone,

I've been playing live for a while and play a lot of the 1-2's at the Venetian and MGM and have been doing very well for a while, but when it comes to online, I've been losing my a$$ off in S&G's. It's to the point where I'm thinking about quitting, which I'm sure some of you would dislike as I'm sure that I've contributed to your bankroll in the past. :-)

I guess I would like to know if the level of play increases as the buy in's get higher? I've been playing mostly $10-30 S&G's and early positon raises and reraises still get called by a multitude of players risking half or more of their chips and AA or KK keeps getting beat by J-5 or Q-7. Longshot draws are being chased for whole chipstacks and it's like I'm playing No-Fold'Em Hold'Em. Live things seem to much different as someone has to physically move chips into the middle rather than clicking a mouse and the loss of real cash seems more intimidating than the loss of a buy in.

So, should I expect better play at higher buy in's or should I just stick to cash games?

Do some of you do equally well in Cash and Tourney or do some of you just excel at one or the other?

Thanks in advance for any help

your not gonna like this but if you cant change your game to beat the bad players you have no shot beating the better players. Stay where u are until you can win.

 

Originally Posted by bongswats

your not gonna like this but if you cant change your game to beat the bad players you have no shot beating the better players. Stay where u are until you can win.

Thanks for the reply, I see your point, but trust me I've tried various approaches and none have worked. In addition, I would hope that better players would recognize when they are beat and know to abandon chasing gutshots when getting the wrong odds to do so. Also, if I raise with AA UTG preflop and get reraised by the button and reraise him and he has plenty of chips left to fold his hand, a good player would know that I have something and wouldn't push on me with QJ and end up making a straight. Am I wrong?

What has helped you beat the lower limits? I really wanna get better online.

Thanks

 

Originally Posted by Vekked

Will play get better at higher buy ins? Yes. Do you want play to get better? No. Will you lose more? Yes.

I like your reply style. :-)

To be honest I wouldn't mind the play getting somewhat better, sure you don't want it to get better to the point where you are in over your head, but playing against people who have no sense whatsoever to fold, is extremely difficult. No one likes to hear bad beat stories, but just to give an example of what I've been facing: I'm UTG with AA on the bubble, raise 3x pre, get called by SB who has the same amount of chips as I do, we are chip leaders, Flop A-3-9 rainbow, SB bets out half the pot, I raise, he pushes all in I call, turn and river come 8 and 10 and he has QJ off for the winning straight and I'm heading to Best Buy to buy another wireless mouse as mine didn't survive this beat.

I can understand him leading out trying to pick up the pot if I didn't have an Ace, but once I raised he should have just let it go considering that the other 2 players left were extremely short stacked and he still had 15 BB's left.

idk if anyone has said this but seriously, why the hell would you want to play against better players? just think about it for a second. you want to play better players because theyll show up with better hands than the bad players. do you reeeeaaaaallllly want that?

 

Originally Posted by bongswats

your not gonna like this but if you cant change your game to beat the bad players you have no shot beating the better players. Stay where u are until you can win.

this. and spend the money. take the class. Jennifear will show you the light.

 

Originally Posted by leftygrove

 

Originally Posted by Somborac19

I'm UTG with AA on the bubble, raise 3x pre, get called by SB who has the same amount of chips as I do, we are chip leaders, Flop A-3-9 rainbow, SB bets out half the pot, I raise, he pushes all in I call, turn and river come 8 and 10 and he has QJ off for the winning straight and I'm heading to Best Buy to buy another wireless mouse as mine didn't survive this beat.

why would you quit online poker if your opponents are praying for runner runner perfect cards?

another post in which a person complains about bad players, it's so tilting

The reason I said that is because I do very well live, but have lost quite a bit of money online. I think it's fair to say that the thought of quitting would cross anyones mind if constantly losing at something. I don't want to quit but would rather improve, hence joining P5 to learn something from you guys who regularly do well online.

Not complaining, merely ilustrated an example of what I've been running into and wondering if this occured at higher buy in's, that's all.

 

Originally Posted by riverdrowns

idk if anyone has said this but seriously, why the hell would you want to play against better players? just think about it for a second. you want to play better players because theyll show up with better hands than the bad players. do you reeeeaaaaallllly want that?

You obviously don't want to play better players than yourself as making money will become much more difficult. When I say better I'm refering to players better than not ever folding anything despite the odds. I guess I've just ran into a lot more suckouts than I ever have live and don't know what to do.

I understand the Op's frustration and a lot of the responses about moving up make sense to a point but honestly, whenever one of these type threads get started, why do people think there are only 2 types of players playing poker; really bad and really good. There are players in between these to extremes and if I understand the OP, that is what he is looking for, playing at a table where at least some of the players are are closer to his own ability not way beyond it or below it. Yes I think there is something to be gained by learning how to play against really bad players, since you will run into them at every level but I also understand why someone would not want to play against a field that is predominantly made up of really bad LAG players. It is extremely trying on the nerves at time.

 

Originally Posted by Limo Wreck

I haven't wasted my time reading the replies to this post, but my guess OP is that you have not yet experienced a true downswing until now. Yes downswings are this bad. Are you good enough to play through it until your AA and KK start holding again? Probably not.
Most players don't have the mental and emotional fortitude to get through a major downswing without losing their bankroll/confidence and end up blaming their problems on rigged online games or various other lame excuses for their lack of experience/emotional control.
So OP if you're ready to man up and accept that variance is a BIG part of this game and you are not going to always win with the best hand then maybe you're ready to keep playing poker. If not, then just keep blaming it on anything but you and keep losing money.

Not really sure what the point of this reply is. "Are you good enough to keep playing until your AA and KK start holding?" PROBABLY NOT....What exactly is your motivation in replying to this. I was merely looking for some help and advice and you my friend aren't providing either. I never said anything about games being rigged and wasn't making excuses, but was explaining what I've encountered in the games I've played. I wanted to see if there were others who may have realized that tourneys weren't suited for them or if moving up in buy in's may expose you to more thinking players rather than just individuals who call you down with anything. A big part of this game is being able to take down a pot at any given time by making a bet substantial enough to make someone else throw away a marginal hand or draw, but if you are playing against someone that isn't ever folding it makes it difficult to win at times.

As I said, I do just fine playing live cash and came on here to get some help from some of you more experienced online players and some have replied with the intention of helping, but you on the other hand...????

 

Originally Posted by iminurhead

the point is this ...... learn to beat play money sng's , then $1 sngs, then $3 sng's , then $5 sngs.....etc....., until you have a big enuf sample size and win rate at your level , dont bother trying to splash around at higher stakes yet. study hh's , and seek as much knowledge and help as you can to improve.

This is fine advice for people who have very little poker experience and not a lot of money at their disposal and are looking to learn the game and build a roll gradually without taking much risk at going broke. A lot of players who post on here are young and probably did not have much of an income or experience when they started playing and depositing $50-100-200 was likely a lot of money for them. I am assuming for many that the way you suggested was the route they took because they had to. It's not the only way. Some players, like myself are a little older, have decent jobs and can afford bigger buy ins and to take more risks so there is no need to follow what you said to the T. It really depends on your means and experience as to where you start playing.

The OP has stated that he is a winning live cash game player so he isn't a noob and now all he needs to do is learn to adapt his game to the SNG format and he should do fine. For this reason I would recommend not buying in too high because he is liable to lose for some time until he gets on to it. Based on what he has said I think part of his problem is he is expecting the Donks to adapt to his style of playing instead of the other way around. I would recommend playing at a lower level for awhile until he gets on to playing the SNG format, learns to handle the inevitable suck outs by the tards, and is winning consistently, then bumping up a couple of levels if he can afford to make a deposit on his account. There is no need to move up one level at a time if you can afford to because the competition doesn't increase all that dramatically from one level to the next, sometimes not at all. Just be prepared to move back down if it isn't working out.

 

Originally Posted by Somborac19

A big part of this game is being able to take down a pot at any given time by making a bet substantial enough to make someone else throw away a marginal hand or draw, but if you are playing against someone that isn't ever folding it makes it difficult to win at times.

BINGO!
Houston we have identified the problem. If you are betting trying to get your opponents to fold weak hands and draws, then you are losing tons of value. You want your opponents to call you down with weak hands and draws. That's how we make money. Obviously this makes it difficult to bluff, but that is just an adjustment you have to make. You also have to be good at knowing when you've been sucked out on so you can lose less with the worst hand. Now that you know their weakness, learn to exploit it.

 

Originally Posted by qjuice14

To help you out a little bit OP, if you do move up in buy-ins from the $10-30 range and play the $20-50 the play will improve. This will make it easier for you to narrow down ranges because more and more players will be playing mostly reasonable starting hands. By doing this, your variance will also decrease - but that is both positive and negative.

Sure your AA will get cracked significantly less b/c less people will not be calling large preflop raises as frequently, but you will also get paid off less frequently with your big hands because less people will be playing marginal hands or calling off on weak draws.

Stick to playing bad players, when you run bad of course you will lose more than if you were playing slightly better players, but when you run good you should be able to exploit these players and their terrible tendencies to more than make up for the bad runs.

Stick it out against these bad players, the variance will ultimately even out and the better players will win the money. If after a substantial sample size you are still losing to these players then you are going to have to make some adjustments to your game.

Great reply, thanks a lot man, I really appreciate it and will consider playing at lower stakes on Full Tilt for a while to get a feel for the S&G's there. Closed my Bodog account and opened up an account on FT today and have played a few games. I'll get back after aquiring a decent sample size.

Thanks again

You probably just arent good enough to beat those buy ins. I consider live 1/2 to be about = to .05/.10 online. whether you are trying to blame the bad players or your luck for your losses, neither hold water. Bad players should be where you make your money, and luck evens out over enough games played. Sure people can be the type who get super lucky/unlucky in the biggest spots, but these are sit and go's, nobody is lucky, nobody is unlucky. You need to get better I would imagine.

 

Originally Posted by frostymember

Just a FYI if you just opened a full tilt acct make sure you got rakeback or email support immediatly to try to get it - it's free and you'll regret it later if you didn't - look into the rackback forum-

Yessir, I signed up for it.