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satellite hand question

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  1. Eddie P R Eddie P R is offline

    United States

    Posts: 4
    Joined: Jul 08

    Jul 24th, 2008 (7/24/2008 4:16am)

    My friend thinks that limping in with my a-8 suited was a bad play here, and I disagree. What do you think? This is a satellite to Sunday million. 5 people left, and 4 people make it.

    pokerstars Game #19059242132: Tournament #97614294, 5400FPP Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2008/07/24 - 03:32:04 (ET)
    Table '97614294 1' 10-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: Murk[a2] (2965 in chips)
    Seat 4: CR34M (2690 in chips)
    Seat 5: milldollbaby (623 in chips)
    Seat 7: Karaflos (6152 in chips)
    Seat 8: Eddie P R (2570 in chips)
    Murk[a2]: posts the ante 40
    CR34M: posts the ante 40
    milldollbaby: posts the ante 40
    Karaflos: posts the ante 40
    Eddie P R: posts the ante 40
    CR34M: posts small blind 200
    milldollbaby: posts big blind 400
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Eddie P R [8d Ad]
    Karaflos: folds
    Eddie P R: calls 400
    Murk[a2]: folds
    CR34M: calls 200
    milldollbaby: checks
    *** FLOP *** [Js 9c 5h]
    CR34M: checks
    milldollbaby: checks
    Eddie P R: checks
    *** TURN *** [Js 9c 5h] [7d]
    CR34M: checks
    milldollbaby: checks
    Eddie P R: checks
    *** RIVER *** [Js 9c 5h 7d] [5c]
    CR34M: checks
    milldollbaby: bets 183 and is all-in
    Eddie P R: calls 183
    CR34M: calls 183
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    milldollbaby: shows [7c 6c] (two pair, Sevens and Fives)
    Eddie P R: mucks hand
    CR34M: shows [2c 9h] (two pair, Nines and Fives)
    CR34M collected 1949 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 1949 | Rake 0
    Board [Js 9c 5h 7d 5c]
    Seat 1: Murk[a2] (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: CR34M (small blind) showed [2c 9h] and won (1949) with two pair, Nines and Fives
    Seat 5: milldollbaby (big blind) showed [7c 6c] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Fives
    Seat 7: Karaflos folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: Eddie P R mucked [8d Ad]
  2. Juanda 87 Juanda 87 is offline

    Calgary
    Canada

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    Jul 24th, 2008 (7/24/2008 5:59am) in reply to Eddie P R

    fold, you don't need anymore chips the bb is crippled.
  3. dealace1 dealace1 is offline @ UFC 115 via UB

    Mississauga
    Canada

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    Jul 24th, 2008 (7/24/2008 8:27am) in reply to Eddie P R

    Folding > Raising > Limping

    Folding is by far the better option. There is no bonus for being the hero that takes out the Shortie.
  4. Adam013085 Adam013085 is offline

    IL
    United States

    Posts: 616
    Joined: May 08

    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 3:35am) in reply to dealace1

    FOLD!!!!
  5. BluffCommited BluffCommited is offline

    Monroe Township, NJ
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 9:25am) in reply to Eddie P R

    This may sound dumb by me so if it does sorry. I actually like limping here for the reason that you add another hand that can knock the shorty out. I think raising here is god awful but doesn't it make sense to add a hand for a fairly cheap price to knock out the bubble? A8 is definitely a above average hand 5 handed and the short stack has so little that you don't want him to go heads up for a chance to hang on. The only argument I can see, and again im not a satty expert, is that out stack isn't that big compared to the blinds but I still think that since the bubble's stack is so small a call here isn't bad
  6. MonkeyCowboy MonkeyCowboy is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 10:54am) in reply to BluffCommited

     
    Originally Posted by BluffCommited View Post

    This may sound dumb by me so if it does sorry. I actually like limping here for the reason that you add another hand that can knock the shorty out. I think raising here is god awful but doesn't it make sense to add a hand for a fairly cheap price to knock out the bubble? A8 is definitely a above average hand 5 handed and the short stack has so little that you don't want him to go heads up for a chance to hang on. The only argument I can see, and again im not a satty expert, is that out stack isn't that big compared to the blinds but I still think that since the bubble's stack is so small a call here isn't bad

    You can't afford to limp there with A8.

    Fold PF 100% of the time
  7. BluffCommited BluffCommited is offline

    Monroe Township, NJ
    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 11:16am) in reply to MonkeyCowboy

    monkey, since i know you have success in sattys can you give a little insight as to why you would fold here. now granted our stack mite be ~2500 and that is probably reason enough to fold but what i was wondering is that 5 handed A8 (suited or not) isn't that weak of a hand and if you fold obv the blinds are getting it all in and it gives the shorty a chance to double up through only 1 opponent rather then 2. wouldn't you want to cut down on his/her chances to survive their all in by adding another hand or is that just stupid thinking on my part. i know that if you do lose and in worse situation the shorty win you have ~1700-1800 while the shorty will now have about ~2k (idk if math is right just seems close) your still not eliminated. any input would b appreciated
  8. MonkeyCowboy MonkeyCowboy is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 2:22pm) in reply to BluffCommited

     
    Originally Posted by BluffCommited View Post

    monkey, since i know you have success in sattys can you give a little insight as to why you would fold here. now granted our stack mite be ~2500 and that is probably reason enough to fold but what i was wondering is that 5 handed A8 (suited or not) isn't that weak of a hand and if you fold obv the blinds are getting it all in and it gives the shorty a chance to double up through only 1 opponent rather then 2. wouldn't you want to cut down on his/her chances to survive their all in by adding another hand or is that just stupid thinking on my part. i know that if you do lose and in worse situation the shorty win you have ~1700-1800 while the shorty will now have about ~2k (idk if math is right just seems close) your still not eliminated. any input would b appreciated

    Like I said above you do not have enough chips to make the play.

    It is not my responsiblity to knock anyone out, if I have more chips I get in and try to eliminate the SS but with a very marginal stack I am folding to the seat.

    It's very hard not to play but remember the payout structure is flat so you gain nothing by playing in that spot.

    You do not need all the chips to win just outlast the last player out.

    Here is something I wrote a while back my apologies if you have read it.

    Two men were sitting by a campfire when a bear entered the camp site. One man started putting on his sneakers. The other man looked at him and said, "You can't out run that bear," to which he replied, "I do not have to out run the bear; I just have to out run you."

    Satellites are much like this old joke. You do not have to win; you just have to finish in front of the last player out.

    http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-art...ar-Games-and-B
  9. BluffCommited BluffCommited is offline

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    United States

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 2:39pm) in reply to MonkeyCowboy

    Thanks man. I just read your article and I gotta say its pretty good. To be honest I didn't know there was that much value to be gained by playing many sattys. And as to OP i didn't mean to hijack your thread just wanted to learn for myself
  10. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 2:51pm) in reply to Eddie P R

    Folding>Shoving>Limping here.

    If you somehow knew for a fact that murk and c4 would fold, you could shove:

    3.8%, TT+ AQs+ AKo

    As it is, limping the A8d puts you in too much danger. You need to preserve chips, especially being in the unfortunate position one to the left of the big stack.
  11. truesyalose truesyalose is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 2:58pm) in reply to Eddie P R

    I played it exactly like you did. You are still slightly ahead of the bb even if he triples here and there are 2 other stacks similar to yours in size. The extra person in the hand to knock out the bb heavily outweighs the negatives if you lose. Hell I limp much much worse than A8dd here.
    1
  12. 8888kush 8888kush is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 3:23pm) in reply to truesyalose

    limpin on the bubble or around the bubble of a satty is str8 dumb imo. why limp and let sb bb see 3 free cards? take it down pre flop and move to next hand.
  13. BluffCommited BluffCommited is offline

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 3:46pm) in reply to 8888kush

    i would think limping is better then raising in that spot imo. why push out another stack when no matters what you raise the shorty isn't folding. i'd much rather have 2 ppl going to bust the short stack then 1
  14. dealace1 dealace1 is offline @ UFC 115 via UB

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    Jul 25th, 2008 (7/25/2008 8:00pm) in reply to BluffCommited

     
    Originally Posted by BluffCommited View Post

    i would think limping is better then raising in that spot imo. why push out another stack when no matters what you raise the shorty isn't folding. i'd much rather have 2 ppl going to bust the short stack then 1

    You really need to re-read the responses that explain why folding is by far the best option here. Read Monkey Cowboys article that he linked in. If you still don't get it I'm not sure satellites are your game. The flat payout structure and the HUGE relative bubble makes the game differ significantly from a std MTT.
  15. CR34M CR34M is offline

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    Jul 29th, 2008 (7/29/2008 5:16am) in reply to dealace1

  16. Marion Cobretti Marion Cobretti is offline

    Portland, OR
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    Jul 29th, 2008 (7/29/2008 11:59am) in reply to CR34M

    Fold as fast as you can.

    Some of the dumbest stuff I come across is in sattys.

    It's not your responsibility to knock out the shorty.
  17. EyeKnows EyeKnows is online now

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    Jul 29th, 2008 (7/29/2008 12:46pm) in reply to Eddie P R

    Limping here w A8 is terrible.
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