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should I have sniffed out the set?

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  1. Wishwash Wishwash is offline

    Troy, NY
    United States

    Posts: 73
    Joined: Jan 06

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 9:33am)

    *********** # 2 **************
    pokerstars Game #10486416096: Tournament #51556764, $350+$20 Hold'em No Limit -
    Level V (75/150) - 2007/06/17 - 19:13:11 (ET)
    Table '51556764 44' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: t_spieler (4845 in chips)
    Seat 2: Beacher99 (8785 in chips)
    Seat 3: Stark (12115 in chips)
    Seat 4: itso_get_it (6266 in chips)
    Seat 5: zzzzzamm (3122 in chips)
    Seat 6: kely15 (1852 in chips)
    Seat 7: WishWash420 (9345 in chips)
    Seat 8: delegator (9020 in chips)
    Seat 9: Derek James (1388 in chips)
    Derek James: posts small blind 75
    t_spieler: posts big blind 150
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to WishWash420 [Qs Qh]
    Beacher99: folds
    Stark: folds
    Derek James said, "ty ty"
    itso_get_it: calls 150
    zzzzzamm: folds
    kely15: folds
    WishWash420: raises 450 to 600
    delegator: calls 600
    Derek James: folds
    t_spieler: folds
    itso_get_it: folds
    *** FLOP *** [6h 7c 3c]
    WishWash420: bets 1200
    delegator: raises 1950 to 3150
    WishWash420: raises 5595 to 8745 and is all-in
    delegator: calls 5270 and is all-in
    *** TURN *** [6h 7c 3c] [9s]
    *** RIVER *** [6h 7c 3c 9s] [As]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    WishWash420: shows [Qs Qh] (a pair of Queens)
    delegator: shows [3d 3s] (three of a kind, Threes)
    delegator collected 18415 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 18415 | Rake 0
    Board [6h 7c 3c 9s As]
    Seat 1: t_spieler (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: Beacher99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Stark folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: itso_get_it folded before Flop
    Seat 5: zzzzzamm folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: kely15 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: WishWash420 showed [Qs Qh] and lost with a pair of Queens
    Seat 8: delegator (button) showed [3d 3s] and won (18415) with three of a kind,
    Threes
    Seat 9: Derek James (small blind) folded before Flop

    *********** # 3 **************
  2. StormForce 7 StormForce 7 is offline

    Posts: 274
    Joined: Nov 05

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 10:15am) in reply to Wishwash

    nines, tens, jacks he could have been playing any of these, not a huge amount you could have done here. KK or AA would have most likely drawn the preflop re-raise so you can forget those. With his raise on the flop it was either push or fold for you.
     
  3. GrayFOX22 GrayFOX22 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 925
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 11:42am) in reply to Wishwash

    It is possible to fold in this spot. Of course it depends on the player, but I have a hard time imagining AA or KK making this PF play this early in a satellite tourney. I think it is possible for maybe 99+ to make this play, but from MP I would more than likely see a reraise from the player, but not necessarily. I say about 70% of the time, he has a set or a heavy draw. It is tricky because it was a good bet on the flop by him.

    I would heavily consider folding and waiting to pick up more chips with a stronger hand. It is all about survival in this tourney, which is another reason pushing me towards folding, especially with the blinds being so low and you having a pretty decent stack. Even with 5500 left, you have a lot of play left int he tournament.
     
  4. The Knish The Knish is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 855
    Joined: Feb 06

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 12:50pm) in reply to Wishwash

    A couple of things IMO

    1st is that I do believe that AA and KK are very often played this way online and if you don't know the player you can't just assume they wouldn't reraise preflop. Ton's of players like to play those hands more slowly and be willing to give you the lead in betting out on a flop like this one and reraise you. It's a bit of a gamble but it isn't uncommon.

    2nd is that many if not most players online will call your preflop raise with any pair so when you get reraised a set has to be a consideration. I agree with other here that you can back off and look for a better situation than an overpair on the flop. You had a decent stack to move on and and contend with if you backed off here.
  5. Wishwash Wishwash is offline

    Troy, NY
    United States

    Posts: 73
    Joined: Jan 06

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 12:50pm) in reply to GrayFOX22

    I actually considered folding. I should have took a little longer to think about it, and had i looked at his OPR, and saw that he is VERY successful, i could have figured out that he's not making a move and committing himself w/ a draw or worse, and coulda folded to his flop RR.
    Was is ok for him to call my PF raise w/ 33??? prolly, right? considering our stacks vs. blinds
    Thread Starter
  6. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 6,026
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    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 12:53pm) in reply to Wishwash

    No. Delegator is a complete nutjob insano maniac. I'm never folding here to him.

    I'm also very, very, very, very rarely folding here to someone you don't have a ton of information on. Actually, I'm never folding here to someone you don't have a ton of information on.
     13
  7. sqorpien sqorpien is offline

    Philadelphia, PA
    United States

    Posts: 422
    Joined: Mar 06

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 1:33pm) in reply to Wishwash

    if he is a maniac like SC says, then i guess u cant fold, but he played it fine IMO, he calls the raise pre with the stack sizes with the implied odds of flopping set and stackin you which is what happened, u can fold, but tough spot esp with a read like SC's
  8. The Knish The Knish is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 855
    Joined: Feb 06

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 1:41pm) in reply to SCTrojans

    I like the way that SCTrojans is so PC and restrains himself here. Must be friends with Delegator I presume?
  9. GrayFOX22 GrayFOX22 is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 925
    Joined: Jun 07

    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 2:37pm) in reply to Wishwash

    I think he played the hand correctly. Given the stack sizes and blinds, it was correct. If he misses and folds, he still has plenty of chips. It would have been a mistake if the blinds were say 200/400 or so.

    I have to disagree with SCTrojans on this. For one, for a tournament of this magnitude (or any tournament for that matter), it is hard to find anyone whom you have a lot of information on. Based off of the information you have given me, I would say that you are more often beat than you are ahead, even if it is a small amount. With the stack that I have and the blinds the way that they are, I will pass up on even marginal edges and wait until I have a large one. I believe that this is key to tournament success. I mean, you will more than likely have to put your money in the middle with a small edge at some point, but I try to avoid that (cash games are a different story). I don't necessarily mean wait until I pick up a hand, but also conserving chips for the sake of having a larger fold equity against players late in the tourney when blinds are high and Ms are low.
     
  10. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

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    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 2:43pm) in reply to Wishwash

    99.99% of poker players are not getting away from QQ-AA on a 7 high flop 99.99% of the time.
  11. Imustcall Imustcall is offline

    Jacksonville, FL
    United States

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    Jun 18th, 2007 (6/18/2007 3:09pm) in reply to AFink93

    You have to decide if tournaments are more about "suvival" or "chipping up", the answer to that question will make the answer to your question more clear.
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