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Should I make the Darvin Moon pot committed fold in this spot??? (Deep in the $20 cubed w/ Blueberleez)

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  1. Albatross77 Albatross77 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

    Posts: 401
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 9th, 2009 (11/9/2009 9:59pm)

    Okay, so I know I'm an idiot for getting myself in this predicament. I actually was fairly confident I would pull off this bluff here. Blueberleez is on my left and I'm sure he thinks I'm a random nit (cause that's what I am), and random nits don't three-bet relatively safe boards with complete air, especially when two opponents are showing that they both have a hand. I don't know the other guy, but he seems like a capable, thinking reg who is also going to read my bet as strength and not think a bluff is a frequent part of my range in this spot.

    As a sidenote, I really hate that I have the ace of spades here, as it takes a hand like ATs or AJs out of Sjonie's range.

    pokerstars Game #35105413051: Tournament #209010537, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIV (6000/12000) - 2009/11/08 20:46:01 ET
    Table '209010537 127' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: gantorius (206795 in chips)
    Seat 2: benaston (283690 in chips)
    Seat 3: perky264 (430245 in chips)
    Seat 4: ODSTOTEK (68349 in chips)
    Seat 5: Sjonie (302354 in chips)
    Seat 6: cocolea2002 (356458 in chips)
    Seat 7: stankee1 (860912 in chips)
    Seat 8: Albatross77 (959409 in chips)
    Seat 9: woheem (183940 in chips)
    gantorius: posts the ante 1200
    benaston: posts the ante 1200
    perky264: posts the ante 1200
    ODSTOTEK: posts the ante 1200
    Sjonie: posts the ante 1200
    cocolea2002: posts the ante 1200
    stankee1: posts the ante 1200
    Albatross77: posts the ante 1200
    woheem: posts the ante 1200
    cocolea2002: posts small blind 6000
    stankee1: posts big blind 12000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Albatross77 [Qh As]
    Albatross77: raises 12100 to 24100
    woheem: folds
    gantorius: folds
    benaston: folds
    perky264: folds
    ODSTOTEK: folds
    Sjonie: calls 24100
    cocolea2002: folds
    stankee1: calls 12100
    *** FLOP *** [9d 3s 7s]
    stankee1: checks
    Albatross77: checks
    Sjonie: bets 42356
    stankee1: raises 53644 to 96000
    Albatross77: raises 101500 to 197500
    Sjonie: raises 79554 to 277054 and is all-in
    stankee1: folds
    Albatross77: ???????
     
  2. Duffy08 Duffy08 is offline

    KS
    United States

    Posts: 3,182
    Joined: Jun 07

    Nov 9th, 2009 (11/9/2009 10:05pm) in reply to Albatross77

    lol what are you doing?

    both players are obv ahead of you and you try to BLUFF BOTH out ?

    you have to call now and hope you have at least 1 over live
     1
  3. Skitz0Frenik Skitz0Frenik is offline

    Zürich
    Switzerland

    Posts: 521
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    Nov 9th, 2009 (11/9/2009 10:17pm) in reply to Albatross77

    Huh?
  4. doomed222 doomed222 is offline

    Canton, MI
    United States

    Posts: 5,005
    Joined: Aug 05

    Nov 9th, 2009 (11/9/2009 10:59pm) in reply to Albatross77

     I think he has a set here like 200% of the time, but maybe you have to call and hope he either only has an overpair, or you hit your runner runner spades. Doubt he ever only has 1010 or JJ here. Has to be a set.
  5. mdshack14 mdshack14 is offline

    Auburn Hills, MI
    United States

    Posts: 5,646
    Joined: May 07

    Nov 9th, 2009 (11/9/2009 11:09pm) in reply to Albatross77

    Well as played you have to call. Don't really understand your line here at all but you have to back door flush draw.
     
  6. Albatross77 Albatross77 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

    Posts: 401
    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 10th, 2009 (11/10/2009 10:08am) in reply to Albatross77

    Yeah, I know I'm a spazz/donk/clown, etc. but honestly, none of you ever take a line like this? I felt the stack sizes and the players I was up against were perfect for this particular move. Honestly I try this play very, very rarely (maybe three or four times total in my life and I've played countless hands) but this seemed like the correct spot for it and it's the first time it's ever backfired on me. The other times I've always raked in the pot without a showdown by getting the two opponents with good hands to both muck. I've never tried it against randoms, too risky. I need to have some sense of how my opponents play.

    Anyway, I recognize that the move is catastrophic when it backfires. It's an extremely high risk play that's also completely unnecessary, given that I'm sitting on a top two stack in the tournament. But I've really made much worse plays in my life. I could show you some hand histories where I play so awful that I practically look like Phil Ivey in this hand by comparison.

    I did make the call with the AQ. The math forced it. I was just hoping like crazy that the guy didn't have a set and I was live. He turned over T9 of spades, good news. I had five outs and he had some flush and pair redraws, but all in all that was about the best hand I could hope to be up against. The turn and the river were both blanks and I lost almost 30% of my stack. I went on to finish 6th and Sjonie used that near triple up to propel him to the victory and around 14K.
     
    Thread Starter
  7. Pooplips Pooplips is offline I collect boogers

    Fremont, OH
    United States

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    Nov 10th, 2009 (11/10/2009 11:22am) in reply to Albatross77

    speachless
  8. The_matrix The_matrix is offline

    Orange, CT
    United States

    Posts: 1,221
    Joined: Mar 07

    Nov 10th, 2009 (11/10/2009 11:28am) in reply to Albatross77

    After reading this HH im ashamed to be a CT poker player... But easy call.
  9. z06fanatic z06fanatic is offline

    CT
    United States

    Posts: 887
    Joined: Apr 07

    Nov 10th, 2009 (11/10/2009 11:32am) in reply to The_matrix

     
    Originally Posted by The_matrix View Post

    After reading this HH im ashamed to be a CT poker player... But easy call.

    well atleast this didn't place in southern CT! gotta keep the good rep up
     2
  10. RoyalCrusher RoyalCrusher is offline

    Cheshire, CT
    United States

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    Nov 10th, 2009 (11/10/2009 11:52am) in reply to z06fanatic

    mmmm CT
     1
  11. Cmoney3 Cmoney3 is offline

    United States

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    Nov 10th, 2009 (11/10/2009 12:01pm) in reply to RoyalCrusher

    check raise a check raiser, sick
  12. BLUEberLEEZ BLUEberLEEZ is offline

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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 3:12am) in reply to Cmoney3

    i will just say that i folded the winner

    the only way for me to think i could possibly be good would have been if i assumed that albatross had just cold 4bet 30% of his stack with basically nothing

    i would have held FWIW

    albatross---i like ur line of thinking here and it kinda worked (i guess)........i'm just not quite sure how you could possibly read weakness on this board, or think that at least one of us wasnt going to come along for the ride
    1
  13. Albatross77 Albatross77 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

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    Joined: Jan 06

    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 6:02pm) in reply to BLUEberLEEZ

    Thanks for the response Frank. I thought that you had a strong hand (something along the lines of JJ) but would give it up out of position against a bigger stack. Especially since you're right near the lead, had a very deep stack, and clearly are a much better player than most of the field. There wasn't enough reason to tangle with an unknown who could be sitting on a monster. I fully expected you to make a "big laydown" but you never really got the chance. I misread Sjonie as weaker than he really was, assumed him to have a mid or low pocket pair, which looked attractive on that flop and merited a bet. Obviously that sort of holding can't continue in the face of two re-raises. When he shoved all-in I got that sick Darvin Moon feeling, but when you're caught you're caught. I felt his hand included enough drawing hands to justify kissing another 80,000 chips goodbye.

    Still, it wasn't so much that I read a lot of weakness, I just thought I repped enormous strength, and knew that thinking players would recognize that. Now that I've gotten burned on this play, I may take it out of my playbook. It's a pretty absurd move, and given that people see I'm capable of it, it's lost all its value...

    Honestly, I'm just a micro player trying to get better. The micros get boring because they're so straightforward, so I play some $22 through $55 MTT's with my winnings to improve my game and in hopes of hitting a five-figure score. I'm always grateful to have the input of players much better than myself. Good luck at the tables and thank you for providing your perspective.
     
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  14. pokerchief29 pokerchief29 is offline

    WI
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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 6:17pm) in reply to Cmoney3

     
    Originally Posted by Cmoney3 View Post

    check raise a check raiser, sick

    ^^ good stuff
  15. qjuice14 qjuice14 is online now

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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 6:28pm) in reply to Albatross77

     
    Originally Posted by Albatross77 View Post

    Now that I've gotten burned on this play, I may take it out of my playbook.

    Every play in the play book has backfired at one point or another. Just because something has back fired, that is not alone sufficient reasoning to abandon it.
     
  16. JokersOnYou JokersOnYou is offline

    Beverly, MA
    United States

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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 6:31pm) in reply to Albatross77

    In my opinion, and please do not take this the wrong way, is that you should get a teacher or a coach and make them stop you from making these ridiculous plays. I looked at your records -- I have very little doubt that you would be making more 1sts and 2nds (rather than 3rds, 4ths and 5ths, which you have a lot of) if you stopped making such catastrophic plays like this one. Just fold the hand and move on.
     
  17. mordan mordan is offline

    NC
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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 6:34pm) in reply to Cmoney3

     
    Originally Posted by Cmoney3 View Post

    check raise a check raiser, sick

    looool exactly what I was thinking reading the HH

    oh ya and call OP your clearly hitting spades by the riv
     
  18. Albatross77 Albatross77 is offline

    Vernon, CT
    United States

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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 6:46pm) in reply to JokersOnYou

     
    Originally Posted by JokersOnYou View Post

    In my opinion, and please do not take this the wrong way, is that you should get a teacher or a coach and make them stop you from making these ridiculous plays. I looked at your records -- I have very little doubt that you would be making more 1sts and 2nds (rather than 3rds, 4ths and 5ths, which you have a lot of) if you stopped making such catastrophic plays like this one. Just fold the hand and move on.

    You're correct. I blow up a lot when I have a huge chipstack, definitely a leak that I need to work on. I'm good at turning up the pressure late, but I need to downshift too when the situation obviously calls for it. I do have a 1st, but it's in the weekly 30K silverstar tourney, so that doesn't really count. I'm not certain if my 3rd-5ths are a result of poor endgame play or not. I need a larger sample size to know for sure, and final tables don't come around all that often for a player like me!

    Oh, and noticed your location. I grew up in Gloucester, MA near Good Harbor Beach. Went to O'Maley Middle School. Fiesta!
     
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  19. SigmaBetaRho SigmaBetaRho is offline

    Glen Oaks, NY
    United States

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    Nov 11th, 2009 (11/11/2009 7:45pm) in reply to Albatross77

    Staying disciplined is so hard with a big stack
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