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Should be jamming here all day right?

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  1. Justin Tobin Justin Tobin is offline

    Philadelphia, PA
    United States

    Posts: 152
    Joined: Mar 09

    Nov 18th, 2009 (11/18/2009 4:53pm)

    Teejmeister1 has been playing pretty solid for the time that I have been at his table, and hasn't been opening all that often.....I am in seat 6 and we are deep in the tourney with 23 players left....

    pokerstars Game #35537432319: Tournament #229010393, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XX (3000/6000) - 2009/11/18 17:22:05 ET
    Table '229010393 119' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: HEDIZZ (273723 in chips)
    Seat 2: Sacerdotal (86660 in chips)
    Seat 3: Teejmeister1 (167717 in chips)
    Seat 4: MrNyNe (153451 in chips)
    Seat 6: x_Tobes_x (130012 in chips)
    Seat 7: frado82 (338108 in chips)
    Seat 9: oxyurose (158458 in chips)
    HEDIZZ: posts the ante 600
    Sacerdotal: posts the ante 600
    Teejmeister1: posts the ante 600
    MrNyNe: posts the ante 600
    x_Tobes_x: posts the ante 600
    frado82: posts the ante 600
    oxyurose: posts the ante 600
    x_Tobes_x: posts small blind 3000
    frado82: posts big blind 6000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to x_Tobes_x [Ks Ad]
    oxyurose: folds
    HEDIZZ: folds
    Sacerdotal said, "lol"
    Teejmeister1 said, "ty"
    Sacerdotal said, "finally"
    Sacerdotal: folds
    Teejmeister1: raises 10000 to 16000
    MrNyNe: folds
    x_Tobes_x: raises 19998 to 35998
    frado82: folds
    Teejmeister1: calls 19998
    *** FLOP *** [Th 3h Kh]
    x_Tobes_x: bets 93414 and is all-in
    Teejmeister1: calls 93414
    *** TURN *** [Th 3h Kh] [5d]
    *** RIVER *** [Th 3h Kh 5d] [Jh]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    x_Tobes_x: shows [Ks Ad] (a pair of Kings)
    Teejmeister1: shows [Kc 8h] (a flush, King high)
    Teejmeister1 collected 269024 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 269024 | Rake 0
    Board [Th 3h Kh 5d Jh]
    Seat 1: HEDIZZ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Sacerdotal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Teejmeister1 showed [Kc 8h] and won (269024) with a flush, King high
    Seat 4: MrNyNe (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: x_Tobes_x (small blind) showed [Ks Ad] and lost with a pair of Kings
    Seat 7: frado82 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 9: oxyurose folded before Flop (didn't bet)

    My thought process behind the 3bet was that if he just calls i range him on almost any pair (except KK), or AK.....if the flop comes dry I can still get away from the hand with my 15bbs. If he mucks pre, great. If he 4bet jams back though I'm calling off anyway so I probably should've just put it in in that spot with my almost 22bbs....it's easy to say after looking at the results that that is what I should have done, but I'm asking......

    Do you all jam in this spot everytime without thinking about it? Thanks in advance for the help/advice.
  2. CayneB CayneB is offline

    Littleton, CO
    United States

    Posts: 448
    Joined: Feb 07

    Nov 18th, 2009 (11/18/2009 5:11pm) in reply to Justin Tobin

    As played, yes, I would be getting it in on that flop every single time. However, to me, your 3bet preflop was WAY too small. There is very very few hands in villain's range that open to that amount and fold to the tiny rebump. Look at the hand from villain's perspective, after your small raise he's looking at calling under 20k more for a preflop pot of ~59k... ~3:1 preflop with position on the 3bettor is just too good to pass up with nearly any two cards. (And obviously w/ flopped top pair + flush draw, villain is not getting away from the flop.) Gotta be 3betting much much bigger here, imo. I'd make it ~45-50k pre, with intent of snap calling a shove.
  3. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

    Westland, MI
    United States

    Posts: 6,364
    Joined: Mar 06

    Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 9:47am) in reply to CayneB

     
    Originally Posted by CayneB View Post

    As played, yes, I would be getting it in on that flop every single time. However, to me, your 3bet preflop was WAY too small. There is very very few hands in villain's range that open to that amount and fold to the tiny rebump. Look at the hand from villain's perspective, after your small raise he's looking at calling under 20k more for a preflop pot of ~59k... ~3:1 preflop with position on the 3bettor is just too good to pass up with nearly any two cards. (And obviously w/ flopped top pair + flush draw, villain is not getting away from the flop.) Gotta be 3betting much much bigger here, imo. I'd make it ~45-50k pre, with intent of snap calling a shove.

    Good advice. Almost easier just to jam preflop. Any decent 3bet you make preflop (and then c-betting) is going to be a significant portion of your stack. Why put yourself in a tough position here, just jam preflop and let everything work out.
  4. brendo27 brendo27 is offline

    Georgetown
    Canada

    Posts: 173
    Joined: Oct 07

    Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 10:46am) in reply to lordxixor101

    I like to jam pf...3bet/fold is terribad with ur stack...just get it in pre
  5. jm5under jm5under is offline

    Milton, MA
    United States

    Posts: 182
    Joined: Aug 08

    Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 11:07am) in reply to Justin Tobin

    i mix it up between straight 3 bet and jamming- doesnt really matter because you're never folding but gotta make 3 bet bigger hes getting like a million to one on a peel- never folding it post flop either but def wanna get this in pre-- if u dont jam size ur 3bet to make him either stick the rest in or fold
  6. allin4flush allin4flush is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

    Posts: 372
    Joined: Jul 09

    Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 3:55pm) in reply to lordxixor101

     
    Originally Posted by lordxixor101 View Post

    Any decent 3bet you make preflop (and then c-betting) is going to be a significant portion of your stack. Why put yourself in a tough position here, just jam preflop and let everything work out.

    FWIW this is the rationale I would apply and shove pf. You've got a decent medium stack but if you're looking to take 1st palce you're entering the "need to double up" zone.
  7. cjmace24 cjmace24 is offline

    Boulder Creek, CA
    United States

    Posts: 251
    Joined: Nov 06

    Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 5:27pm) in reply to Justin Tobin

    Your M is 9.03, with the raise in front you needed to jam preflop IMO. After the flop, I don't know what I do there. Maybe check/fold...His hand is super uglier then expected, but I would expect KxQh or Ah w/ Kx Jx or Qx with the preflop action...tough break.
  8. spaceman3205 spaceman3205 is offline

    Tallahassee, FL
    United States

    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mar 09

    Nov 19th, 2009 (11/19/2009 9:42pm) in reply to Justin Tobin

    Should have reraised to about 45-50k pre. as played get it in on flop.
  9. Justin Tobin Justin Tobin is offline

    Philadelphia, PA
    United States

    Posts: 152
    Joined: Mar 09

    Nov 21st, 2009 (11/21/2009 12:21pm) in reply to spaceman3205

    Thanks for the solid advice everyone! Much appreciated.
    Thread Starter
  10. Tacosontilt Tacosontilt is offline

    Posts: 279
    Joined: Feb 09

    Nov 28th, 2009 (11/28/2009 7:17am) in reply to Justin Tobin

    just jam preflop, your logic that your gonna 3b and try and get away from a board without a A or K is awful, this is why shoving preflop prevents u from being stuck in that scenario, if u wanna 3 bet, just 3bet half your stack, dont do wat u did.
     
  11. stiverson530 stiverson530 is offline

    Kalamazoo, MI
    United States

    Posts: 154
    Joined: May 08

    Dec 2nd, 2009 (12/2/2009 9:00am) in reply to Justin Tobin

    most definitely you should just be jamming preflop, you have to balance your range, you have 21.5 bbs, so if your jamming Kq you should be jamming AK, as well as aces. this is even more true as your buy in increases because the players are more aware of resteals and are calling even lighter. but either way, you just got unlucky and should be happy your playing with a player who calls a 3 bet preflop oop with k8
     
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