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should top-pair,top-kicker,nut flush draw be layed down here?

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  1. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 83
    Joined: Feb 07

    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:14pm)

    in a 6 man sng, top 2 get paid. flop top-top with nut flush draw and initial raiser goes all in when the blinds are low. can u identify the mistakes made in this hand please.

    pokerstars Game #11618154889: Tournament #58945746, $6.00+$0.60 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/08/21 - 20:09:23 (ET)
    Table '58945746 1' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: Fear Le55 (1410 in chips)
    Seat 2: Swishey (1050 in chips)
    Seat 3: Sr. Gary (1195 in chips)
    Seat 4: orca71 (1360 in chips)
    Seat 5: kenthegreat (650 in chips)
    Seat 6: bobbydee1 (3335 in chips) is sitting out
    Fear Le55: posts small blind 15
    Swishey: posts big blind 30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Fear Le55 [Ad Qd]
    Sr. Gary: calls 30
    orca71: raises 90 to 120
    kenthegreat: folds
    bobbydee1: folds
    Fear Le55: calls 105
    Swishey: folds
    Sr. Gary: calls 90
    *** FLOP *** [Jd Qs 4d]
    Fear Le55: checks
    Sr. Gary: checks
    orca71: bets 1240 and is all-in
    Fear Le55: raises 50 to 1290 and is all-in
    Sr. Gary: folds
    *** TURN *** [Jd Qs 4d] [8h]
    *** RIVER *** [Jd Qs 4d 8h] [2c]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Fear Le55: shows [Ad Qd] (a pair of Queens)
    orca71: shows [Jh Qc] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
    orca71 collected 2870 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2870 | Rake 0
    Board [Jd Qs 4d 8h 2c]
    Seat 1: Fear Le55 (small blind) showed [Ad Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
    Seat 2: Swishey (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: Sr. Gary folded on the Flop
    Seat 4: orca71 showed [Jh Qc] and won (2870) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
    Seat 5: kenthegreat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: bobbydee1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. felloff felloff is offline

    Edmonton
    Canada

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:21pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    6 handed mang..you have to be a lot more agressive with your hand preflop.
  3. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:24pm) in reply to felloff

    reraising these dudes preflop is like asking for a coinflip, which i m not looking for.
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  4. felloff felloff is offline

    Edmonton
    Canada

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:30pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    how do you come to that conclusion..he had qj off..he folds to the re-raise
  5. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:44pm) in reply to felloff

    cus most of these dudes cant lay down 2 face cards preflop.
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  6. felloff felloff is offline

    Edmonton
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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:53pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    well thats what you get in the 6 dollar buy-ins. Play to win...
  7. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:57pm) in reply to felloff

    ok forget about ur preflop advice, how was the flop action, any mistakes?
    Thread Starter
  8. JesseWJames JesseWJames is offline

    Newport Beach, CA
    United States

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:58pm) in reply to felloff

    i would love to get it all in on that flop......almost every time
     
  9. felloff felloff is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 8:58pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    I think your going out regaurdless on this hand..you were going to check raise him anyway... tough hand.. GG
  10. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 9:02pm) in reply to JesseWJames

    so i didnt do anythign wrong on the flop huh, was thinking maybe i made a mistake.
    Thread Starter
  11. felloff felloff is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 9:04pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    Top pair with nut flush..really big hand....especially in this buy-in.
  12. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 9:07pm) in reply to felloff

    thanks for sticking around and telling me i made the right call. losing this hand made me lose confidence.
    Thread Starter
  13. felloff felloff is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 9:07pm) in reply to felloff

    preflop you were a 74% fav...after the flop you were still 44 % to win sooo dont worry.
  14. JesseWJames JesseWJames is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 9:32pm) in reply to felloff

    you shouldnt lose confidence over one hand, especially on a hand like this, you are still almost even to win the hand after the flop, but usually in this situation (especially at this buy in) you are good almost every time, this dude just got lucky
     
  15. fingers fingers is offline

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    Aug 21st, 2007 (8/21/2007 10:53pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    The only way you can fold is if you think he has flopped a set on you. That is the only way you are in bad shape. You were a 55% to 45% dog the way the cards lay. In my opinion, that was a dream flop to a raise and I am not folding. Even if he had AA or KK, the odds are within 1% of being the same as above 56% to 43%. Believe it or not, if you had A4, bottom pair and nut flush draw, the odds increase. 53% to 47% you are slight dog. It is around 69% to 31% if he flopped a set on you.

    If you have any pair w/ a flush draw, or something like an open ended straight flush draw or a combination of a straight and flush draw w/ overs, you are never in terrible shape. I am going with it. But that might just be me.

    Oh and layed is correctly spelled laid, but that is another topic. :)
  16. Fear Le55 Fear Le55 is offline

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    Aug 22nd, 2007 (8/22/2007 2:05pm) in reply to fingers

    thanks alot for the advice guys, i really appreciate it. after the hand was over, i went on cardplayer and used their odds calculator and discovered the odds myself. i feel better now.
    Thread Starter
  17. sotti sotti is offline

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    Aug 22nd, 2007 (8/22/2007 2:37pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    You said above you weren't looking for a coinflip, but that is exactly what you put all your money in on.

    Granted you had no reason to think you were behind.

    I assume you were going for a check raise on the flop? When I flop a pair + a draw, I generally try to get it all in or am making overbets of the pot, this may be very transparent to an observant opponent but most $6 players aren't, and even then they may say that huge over bet must be a bluff and don't understand what 15 or 16 outs mean.
  18. punish15 punish15 is offline

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    Australia

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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 9:55am) in reply to Fear Le55

    unless you're 90% sure you can outplay these guys and cruise to a win in this SNG then I'm calling in this spot every time. to make you feel better:
    1. orca71 got incredibly lucky by hitting the shit out of that flop after making a questionable raise in EP
    2. he was even luckier that somebody else (you) also hit the shit out of that flop such that they would call his ridiculous overbet.
    3. his hand held up (which is won't do 45% of the time)

    If I were to offer any advice, reraise preflop, you have position and it is only 6 handed so you want to find out how strong your hand is compared to this dude who is suggesting he is much stronger than he turned out to be.
  19. Largadon Largadon is offline

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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 5:53pm) in reply to felloff

    Flop is fine, I disagree with felloff about reraising the AQ PF unless the guy has been really aggressive. Blinds are low, no need to overplay AQ OOP, see a flop and go from there. (Even though the guy showed JQo)
  20. felloff felloff is offline

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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 6:37pm) in reply to punish15

    its 6 handed.... dont flat call with a hand you know is most likely good....you reraise preflop to end the hand and not to play it oop on the flop.
  21. babyblueeyes babyblueeyes is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2007 (8/24/2007 1:28pm) in reply to Fear Le55

    These are the types of flops that win you MTT's-all in 11 out of 10 times
  22. phatstak23 phatstak23 is offline

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    Aug 24th, 2007 (8/24/2007 4:40pm) in reply to babyblueeyes

    I would play the hand exactly like you did pre and post flop you just didnt hit nothing you did wrong IMO move on to the next one.
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