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shove or fold from sb?

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  1. RedIceRap RedIceRap is offline Redirator

    Germany

    Posts: 2,093
    Joined: Jun 10

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 2:47am)

    just made a shove i really didn't like to do. thought it's a +ev shove but dont know thought i coulda waited for a better spot. what do u guys think? i mean yeah if i won the hand i prolly wouldnt post it but it took me a few seconds before i shoved and i kinda didnt want to shove there.

    Payouts in € (8 left):
    1. 3774
    2. 2817
    3. 2005
    4. 1396
    5. 1038
    6. 800
    7. 561
    8. 246
    9. 203

    pokerstars Game #73644424156: Tournament #495632611, €9+€1 EUR Hold'em No Limit - Level XL (60000/120000) - 2012/01/11 3:23:44 CET [2012/01/10 21:23:44 ET]
    Table '495632611 88' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: HAMAEL69 (3957313 in chips)
    Seat 2: skavens69 (3314522 in chips)
    Seat 3: RedIce90 (1430103 in chips)
    Seat 4: ElPresid3nte (1611608 in chips)
    Seat 5: nenegoal (2697586 in chips)
    Seat 7: espana12 (3928112 in chips)
    Seat 8: mazaaal (884700 in chips)
    Seat 9: **sabi**261 (8706056 in chips)
    HAMAEL69: posts the ante 15000
    skavens69: posts the ante 15000
    RedIce90: posts the ante 15000
    ElPresid3nte: posts the ante 15000
    nenegoal: posts the ante 15000
    espana12: posts the ante 15000
    mazaaal: posts the ante 15000
    **sabi**261: posts the ante 15000
    RedIce90: posts small blind 60000
    ElPresid3nte: posts big blind 120000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to RedIce90 [7d 6c]
    nenegoal: folds
    espana12: folds
    mazaaal: folds
    **sabi**261: folds
    HAMAEL69: folds
    skavens69: folds
    RedIce90: raises 1295103 to 1415103 and is all-in
    ElPresid3nte: calls 1295103
    *** FLOP *** [Td Jd 5d]
    *** TURN *** [Td Jd 5d] [2h]
    *** RIVER *** [Td Jd 5d 2h] [Kd]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    RedIce90: shows [7d 6c] (a flush, King high)
    ElPresid3nte: shows [Qd Kc] (a flush, King high - Queen higher)
    ElPresid3nte collected 2950206 from pot
    RedIce90 finished the tournament in 8th place and received €346.21.
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2950206 | Rake 0
    Board [Td Jd 5d 2h Kd]
    Seat 1: HAMAEL69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: skavens69 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: RedIce90 (small blind) showed [7d 6c] and lost with a flush, King high
    Seat 4: ElPresid3nte (big blind) showed [Qd Kc] and won (2950206) with a flush, King high
    Seat 5: nenegoal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: espana12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: mazaaal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: **sabi**261 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     207 1
  2. forty_as forty_as is offline

    Saint-Sauveur
    Canada

    Posts: 64
    Joined: Aug 10

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 3:15am) in reply to RedIceRap

    you committed 85K chip still have 1,3 mill...
    Think i fold almost always there, am i the only one??
  3. iamthedeck ftw iamthedeck ftw is offline

    Windsor
    Canada

    Posts: 1,320
    Joined: Jan 10

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 3:26am) in reply to forty_as

    ft or bubble I shove bc calling ranges tighten up but if we are just in the money it's prob closer against competent villains and maybe a fold... fwiw I think if we are 15-20bb effective here I don't mind raise/fold with a hand like this
    127 
  4. RedIceRap RedIceRap is offline Redirator

    Germany

    Posts: 2,093
    Joined: Jun 10

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 3:31am) in reply to iamthedeck ftw

    This is a €10 ft with 8 left on stars.fr. I think it's a +cEV shove, but other factors could make this a fold.
     207 1
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  5. Unbay2k4 Unbay2k4 is offline

    Posts: 160
    Joined: Dec 06

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 10:23pm) in reply to RedIceRap

    So you shoved in the SB with 11BBs to the BB who effectively has the same stack as you.
    The hand completely depends on your previous history with the player and 1.) your inclination if he's trying to just move up the money ladder 2.) If he has a history of being a good solid player and is capable of understanding what he is ahead of due to your image at the table.
     
  6. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,938
    Joined: Aug 07

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 10:37pm) in reply to Unbay2k4

    i would guess this is pretty close. if the bb stack was larger then i'd probably fold, but given that he's pretty short too, it might be a shove...idk, in a $10 mtt i'd probably shove cause i woudln't expect this guy to be calling remotely close to correct in the bb


    edit: looks like it's gonna be a shove:

    SB 78.6%, 22+ Kx+ Q2s+ Q3o+ J2s+ J4o+ T2s+ T6o+ 92s+ 95o+ 82s+ 85o+ 73s+ 75o+ 62s+ 64o+ 52s+ 54o 42s+

    http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...103&s9=1611608


    edit 2: i was right about him having more chips and it not being a shove...if we give the bb 1mil more chips, our shoving range shrinks to only 59%...it still has 76o as a shove, but it's def bottom of the range. if we give him over 3 mil then 76o becomes a fold:

    if bb has 2.6mil: SB 59.0%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K3o+ Q2s+ Q8o+ J3s+ J7o+ T4s+ T7o+ 95s+ 97o+ 84s+ 86o+ 74s+ 76o 64s+ 53s+

    http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...103&s9=2611608

    if bb has 3.6 mil: SB 50.8%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K5o+ Q3s+ Q8o+ J4s+ J8o+ T5s+ T8o+ 95s+ 98o 85s+ 87o 75s+ 64s+ 54s

    http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...103&s9=3611608




    edit 3: isn't math so cool?
    Edited By: Gags30 Jan 11th, 2012 at 10:42 PM
     21

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  7. whitespur whitespur is offline

    Posts: 384
    Joined: Oct 06

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 11:33pm) in reply to Gags30

    100% positive I'm not open folding sb v bb with 25% of my starting stack value in the pot already ($300K) and 12bbs to start the hand. Ever.

    And is it a stupid question to ask if QKo is a snap call here from the bb?
  8. RedIceRap RedIceRap is offline Redirator

    Germany

    Posts: 2,093
    Joined: Jun 10

    Jan 11th, 2012 (1/11/2012 11:42pm) in reply to whitespur

    wow gags thats amazing! THANK YOU! is it a good idea to always stick to math in similar spots? feel like i bust way to often when i make these marginal +ev shoves, and since the players kinda overvalued weaker aces in general on that table i felt like i could miss out on that spot and wait for AJ and get paid by A7s or something.

     
    Originally Posted by whitespur View Post

    100% positive I'm not open folding sb v bb with 25% of my starting stack value in the pot already ($300K) and 12bbs to start the hand. Ever.

    And is it a stupid question to ask if QKo is a snap call here from the bb?

    yes this is an easy snap call. def one of the better hands to wake up in such a spot
     207 1
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