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Sick spot at borgata 5 10 game! lemme kno what you guys think

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  1. ratboy x ratboy x is offline

    Jackson, NJ
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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 8:08am)

    so i get to the borgata and im looking at tables and this one table caught my eye so i sat down with 1k and i walk into the bb. i look down at 44 middle postion limper, cutoff, button limps, small b completes and i check. the flop comes A54 2d, i led for 35 and this asian guy makes it 250 (i played with him b4 and hes sorta TAG).( he has about 2.5k in front of him) everyone folds and it gets back to me. what would you guys do?

    things to think about.

    1. what is he doing this with?

    2.is he really calling with worst if i shove?

    once i get a few responses ill post on what i did.

    thanks
     
  2. d7o1d1s0 d7o1d1s0 is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 8:28am) in reply to ratboy x

    i would put him on a hand like AJ, it seems like he's established that if you had a stronger A, you would have raised preflop. If he had 55, he probably wouldn't raise quite so big in the hope of trapping you, but with a draw heavy board like this I suppose it is a possibility. Its also quite possible he has a hand like 67dd in which case I don't think he's folding...

    Starting with 100BBs in a live game i'm pretty much getting it in in this spot, if he has 55 its just a cooler. Don't see how you can flat either because if the big draw hits you're probably folding after putting in like 25-30% of your chips, which we don't like doing
  3. ArmoArmy ArmoArmy is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 8:38am) in reply to d7o1d1s0

    He either has A5 or 2 diamonds. Shove and hope you hold.
  4. wes_mc wes_mc is offline

    Raleigh, NC
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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 8:44am) in reply to ratboy x

    two questions:

    1. which two cards are diamonds?

    2. what position was "this asian guy" in?

    Doesn't it seem likely he has something like AdJd to AdKd? I mean if you know this guy is TAG, he isn't playing 23, and sure it's always possible he has 55, but he would have raised pf with AA most of the time, so there's really only one hand that beats you. I could be way off - I don't play a lot of cash (and never 5/10), but it feels a lot like a flush draw and/or top pair to me, and if that's the case then yeah he'd probably call.
  5. 901_Penn 901_Penn is offline

    New York City, NY
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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 8:55am) in reply to ratboy x

    Dont really seeing him have a big A-since he didnt repop pre. Feeling like he flopped 2 pair or praying for a diamond. Ship and pray read is good and it holds.
  6. ratboy x ratboy x is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:05am) in reply to wes_mc

    its 4 5 of diamonds and he was in middle postion.
     
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  7. ratboy x ratboy x is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:13am) in reply to ratboy x

    when i was tanking i was thinking about A 4 and 45 but i have 44 in my hand so i had to cancel that out so the only thing i could put him on was 555 A5 or big draw and possibly 2 3 which is really unlikely for this guy
     
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  8. wes_mc wes_mc is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:23am) in reply to ratboy x

     
    Originally Posted by ratboy x View Post

    its 4 5 of diamonds and he was in middle postion.

    then yeah i think Ax diamonds seems pretty likely, with a possibility of 55 or A5
  9. ratboy x ratboy x is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:26am) in reply to ratboy x

    any1 else?
     
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  10. ficha19 ficha19 is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:37am) in reply to ratboy x

    i would fold
  11. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:39am) in reply to ratboy x

    if its the asian guy I think it is then he could certainly be doing it with 2 diamonds and would def. do it with 2 pair

    cant see him limping with AA

    i would say get it in here and realize that you are probably gonna have to fade a huge part of the deck
  12. Zephyr98 Zephyr98 is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:46am) in reply to jetsjets1028

    idk really, not playing live cash...but 6d7d is a worrying possibility...
  13. rayspizza rayspizza is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 9:48am) in reply to ratboy x

    Effective stacks are 100BB and you have a set, so this is probably the easiest stack off ever.

    Is villain SB? Is the A one of the diamonds? pretty hard to put this guy on a range of hands with so little info.
  14. DAWS DAWS is offline OT's Youngest Grandpa

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 10:12am) in reply to ratboy x

    Range:
    AA - unlikely
    55
    A5
    A4
    A2dd+
    67dd
    23o
    23dd
    K2dd - unlikely with this player (OP says TAG)? If unlikely then remove
    K3dd - unlikely with this player? If unlikely then remove
    air - unlikely with you leading and so many people left to act

    Can someone stove that range? I am at work.

    what ray said... 100 bbs you have a set I'm assuming the weak lead was with intent of having someone raise

    EDIT - maybe we shouldn't make AA unlikely... you said you have played with this guy before and you are BB. If you have a history of making BB raises he may be limping here... or maybe there is a dynamic going on with the CO/button/SB. I would leave AA in his range.
  15. JMcKW JMcKW is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 10:33am) in reply to ratboy x

    I happily shove here fwiw
  16. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 10:35am) in reply to DAWS

     
    Originally Posted by DAWS View Post

    what ray said... 100 bbs you have a set I'm assuming the weak lead was with intent of having someone raise

    i meant to include this in my post above....your bet was an obvious attempt to induce action....now that you got what you wanted, you dont know what to do...thats poor planning

    you MUST be thinking a step or 2 ahead at this level or you will get killed because the best NL players in the Borgata are playing the 5-10 game most days

    i really dont see an option for you here...you obv arent deep enough to raise fold here and calling the raise is gonna only open up the range of hands that beat you going forward

    i like looking at the hand from his perspective.....say he has 2 pair.....he can raise to 250 here and get away from the hand knowing he is beat if you shove

    even though a semi-bluff is possible with diamonds, I would think he would flat your bet with a diamond draw and try to take it away on the turn if he misses, rather than raising you here, but thats just a broad assumption that could be off

    I would put him on A5 more than any other hand.
  17. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 10:49am) in reply to ratboy x

    In a live cash game, i think this is a pretty standard shove here. His bet sizing is indicative of a draw or two pair more than 55's or 23. I would happily tank shove here and double up. Asians play draws big and fast(not all but most ive played with at Borgata at least)
     11
  18. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 11:13am) in reply to DAWS

     
    Originally Posted by DAWS View Post

    Range:
    AA - unlikely
    55
    A5
    A4
    A2dd+
    67dd
    23o
    23dd
    K2dd - unlikely with this player (OP says TAG)? If unlikely then remove
    K3dd - unlikely with this player? If unlikely then remove
    air - unlikely with you leading and so many people left to act

    Can someone stove that range? I am at work.

    what ray said... 100 bbs you have a set I'm assuming the weak lead was with intent of having someone raise

    EDIT - maybe we shouldn't make AA unlikely... you said you have played with this guy before and you are BB. If you have a history of making BB raises he may be limping here... or maybe there is a dynamic going on with the CO/button/SB. I would leave AA in his range.

    Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

    225,720 games 0.005 secs 45,144,000 games/sec

    Board: Ac 5d 4d

    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied

    Hand 0: 66.448% 65.87% 00.58% 148682 1303.50 { 44 }

    Hand 1: 33.552% 32.97% 00.58% 74431 1303.50 { AA, 55, A2s+, K3s-K2s, 76s, 32s, A5o-A4o, 32o }

    Id say your equity is pretty dang high vs that range..Snap get it in.
     11
  19. ratboy x ratboy x is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 2:44pm) in reply to jetsjets1028

    i did have a plan. im jus getting input from different people
     
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  20. ratboy x ratboy x is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 2:50pm) in reply to ratboy x

    the answer is i jammed and he called and he had 2 3 off sigh
     
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  21. shanetrain22 shanetrain22 is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 3:08pm) in reply to ratboy x

     
    Originally Posted by ratboy x View Post

    the answer is i jammed and he called and he had 2 3 off sigh

    Get it in on flop and don't think twice about it.

    Also, edit your note on the asian guy... TAG doesn't seem accurate.
     1
  22. matze_widi matze_widi is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 4:21pm) in reply to ficha19

     
    Originally Posted by ficha19 View Post

    i would fold

    why would you fold this, the really only hand who beats us is 55´s and if he has it theres nothing u can do.
    like other said most of the time we are against an A high FD some 67s,78s maybe..
    and against this range we are doing pretty good so i def get it in here..
    ul imo if he has 55´s
     
  23. matze_widi matze_widi is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 4:23pm) in reply to ratboy x

     
    Originally Posted by ratboy x View Post

    the answer is i jammed and he called and he had 2 3 off sigh

    ul he had 32o here, but then again u are not drawing dead and he really shouldn´t show up here with 32 a lot especially if he is TAG
     
  24. cburnette cburnette is offline

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    Jan 6th, 2010 (1/6/2010 7:31pm) in reply to ratboy x

    I play in that game from time to time. It is a pretty tough game to beat consistently.

    As played, I prob would have figured an over set and folded. After hearing the analysis and looking at the poker stove, tyvm, who knows, maybe I call now.

    Thanks for sharing.

    wp
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