Fairly new to table lots of big stacks, So BLACK just made a huge bluff on river and got picked off by artielpe about 10 min before this hand popped off, no read on Profiteer. So what what u all do here and what type of hands do u put these 2 on?

pokerstars Game #32537235559: Tournament #200909009, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (1000/2000) - 2009/09/06 21:21:57 ET
Table '200909009 124' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: j_shooter11 (13860 in chips)
Seat 2: Drachen59 (141892 in chips)
Seat 3: SO BLACK (113985 in chips)
Seat 4: slaskman (58386 in chips)
Seat 5: Artielpc (266224 in chips)
Seat 6: julianherold (31875 in chips)
Seat 7: ablation (130620 in chips)
Seat 8: arodss3 (117158 in chips)
Seat 9: Pr0fiteer (168819 in chips)
j_shooter11: posts the ante 250
Drachen59: posts the ante 250
SO BLACK: posts the ante 250
slaskman: posts the ante 250
Artielpc: posts the ante 250
julianherold: posts the ante 250
ablation: posts the ante 250
arodss3: posts the ante 250
Pr0fiteer: posts the ante 250
arodss3: posts small blind 1000
Pr0fiteer: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to arodss3 [8s 8h]
j_shooter11: folds
Drachen59: folds
SO BLACK: raises 2499 to 4499
slaskman: folds
Artielpc: folds
julianherold: folds
ablation: folds
arodss3: calls 3499
Pr0fiteer: calls 2499
*** FLOP *** [Jd Td 8c]
arodss3: checks
Pr0fiteer: checks
SO BLACK: bets 6236
arodss3: raises 10639 to 16875
Pr0fiteer: calls 16875
SO BLACK: raises 92361 to 109236 and is all-in
ablation is sitting out
arodss3 ???????????????????

 

Originally Posted by Sh!p!tD0nk

Set of 10's seems like a hand, the way he played it, but i think AJ is certanly a hand he has here most of the time, maybe aces as well trying to get value by not shoving pre flop but i doubt that

snap him off with his QJ.

 

Originally Posted by jamie16119

snap him off with his QJ.

What's really in his range though? Tens and jacks easily but is he really going to shove AJ/QQ+ after a c-r in a 3way pot? QK and 99 as draws in his range too. Realistically I think you're up against a draw or behind...

call then punch monitor when he has 79

what are there locations and why are you considering folding

 

Originally Posted by darkcheck_

what are there locations and why are you considering folding

Very rarely would i even consider folding a set after i 3 bet but this time i think it warrented some time to think it over.
I considered folding because i would still have 50bb and i believe i have a huge advantage against the avg player deep in these fields. I thought the original raiser could easily have a set of 10's or JJ or a huge draw i really dont believe he would do this with qq+ on that board and the other guy obv has somthing prob draw heavy with his flat to my 16850 reraise and is left to act behind me.

Its stars prob euro's obv

sounds like black is an idiot stacking off with aj.

i bet profiteer has a flush draw with the 9d and maybe a pair with it.

let me guess, you threw it away and the draw got there and that is why your posting this? :)

having 50bb with the edge you have against the field doesn't make this the worst laydown though

pokerstars Game #32537235559: Tournament #200909009, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (1000/2000) - 2009/09/06 21:21:57 ET
Table '200909009 124' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: j_shooter11 (13860 in chips)
Seat 2: Drachen59 (141892 in chips)
Seat 3: SO BLACK (113985 in chips)
Seat 4: slaskman (58386 in chips)
Seat 5: Artielpc (266224 in chips)
Seat 6: julianherold (31875 in chips)
Seat 7: ablation (130620 in chips)
Seat 8: arodss3 (117158 in chips)
Seat 9: Pr0fiteer (168819 in chips)
j_shooter11: posts the ante 250
Drachen59: posts the ante 250
SO BLACK: posts the ante 250
slaskman: posts the ante 250
Artielpc: posts the ante 250
julianherold: posts the ante 250
ablation: posts the ante 250
arodss3: posts the ante 250
Pr0fiteer: posts the ante 250
arodss3: posts small blind 1000
Pr0fiteer: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to arodss3 [8s 8h]
j_shooter11: folds
Drachen59: folds
SO BLACK: raises 2499 to 4499
slaskman: folds
Artielpc: folds
julianherold: folds
ablation: folds
arodss3: calls 3499
Pr0fiteer: calls 2499
*** FLOP *** [Jd Td 8c]
arodss3: checks
Pr0fiteer: checks
SO BLACK: bets 6236
arodss3: raises 10639 to 16875
Pr0fiteer: calls 16875
SO BLACK: raises 92361 to 109236 and is all-in
ablation is sitting out
arodss3: folds
Pr0fiteer: calls 92361
*** TURN *** [Jd Td 8c] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Td 8c 7d] [2c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Pr0fiteer: shows [9d 4d] (a flush, Jack high)
SO BLACK: shows [Ad Jh] (a pair of Jacks)
Pr0fiteer collected 251094 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 251094 | Rake 0
Board [Jd Td 8c 7d 2c]
Seat 1: j_shooter11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Drachen59 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: SO BLACK showed [Ad Jh] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: slaskman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Artielpc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: julianherold folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ablation (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: arodss3 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Pr0fiteer (big blind) showed [9d 4d] and won (251094) with a flush, Jack high

 

Originally Posted by tacp561

considered folding because i would still have 50bb and i believe i have a huge advantage against the avg player deep in these fields

I don't understand where your advantage comes from if you are folding in these spots. A lot of people always uses lines like this in hand analysis, when ultimately deciding to fold, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Most advantages in poker come from accurately being able to assess hand ranges and then compounding this series of +EV decisions. You have, admittedly, got a very aggressive player shoving here who is capable of executing very big bluffs. I don't see how you can't believe that you crush his range here. Sure, he will show up w/ better hand sometimes but nearly often enough.

Your main concern is the flatter. Sure his flat here is a little puzzling, but I would not be any more inclined to weigh it as a draw, combo draw, 2 pair, or higher set. this is such a draw heavy board and I can't imagine that he is going to sit on a set of 10s or Js after this action on this type of flop, especially when he is playing out of position. There is very little merit to trying trap on this board in a multi way pot when the action is very heavy and you already likely have one or more players who could possibly stack off here. I think he most likely is thinking his flat will freeze the action and he can hope to pick off a cheap river card. which suggests is range is more polarized to draws, pair and draw, or double draw hands that have little show down value now but lots of implied potential.

going all in here, against 2 ranges that you are ahead of, gives you the best chance of winning this tournament. where do you expect to create advantages against weaker players when you pass up on +EV decisions for massive pots? Seems like a great chance to win up to a 190bb pot in a big touranment with a sick structure.